A New Pope!

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:05] Speaker B: Well, we have a new Pope. Just breaking news for those who didn't. [00:00:11] Speaker A: Know, in case you didn't know, the. [00:00:14] Speaker B: College of Cardinals elected a new pope and it is Robert. Okay, first of all, before I even go on, who heard the word Robert and thought Robert Seurat did anybody? [00:00:26] Speaker C: I did. [00:00:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:00:27] Speaker B: I heard it crossed my mind. But I was like, there's no way he could have got elected that quickly. Okay. Anyway, Robert Francis, Provost, I think he's pronounced how you pronounce his last name, who is now Pope Leo the 14th. And I will, I want to note also my wife called that we had a, a bet in our predictions in our family chat, what would the papal name be? And she said Leo xiv. So I was like, how about that? I was guessing Paul vi I thought for sure would be one of the more recent names. Anyway, so we have a new pope. He has come out already on the Loggia. He has already given his first apostolic blessing. And a little something, I'll just say it. I know we're all like gonna, I want to give benefit of doubt to the new Pope, but I was disappointed that he didn't speak any in English. I mean, come on, you're American, right? Come on, speak American. I mean, so that was a little bit disappointing that he didn't speak any English. But anyway, so I was really offended by that. [00:01:25] Speaker C: That was the most upsetting thing for me. [00:01:28] Speaker B: I mean, give us at least a few words. Holy Father in the native tongue. [00:01:33] Speaker C: Go. [00:01:33] Speaker B: Okay. [00:01:34] Speaker C: He should have said that. [00:01:35] Speaker B: Yeah, go kill us. Okay. We, before we got on really matters. [00:01:39] Speaker C: Is he a White Sox or Cubs? Okay, I'll stop. Stop. Go ahead. [00:01:41] Speaker B: Yeah. We were gone before the podcast fighting with us. I do not like Chicago. I apologize to all the Chicago listeners out there. I've never liked it very much. My brother in law is from Chicago, so hopefully he's not listening. But I just have not been a fan of the city for a long time. Mostly because I hate driving through there or there anyway. But Timothy, who's close, lives close to Chicago, he's a fan. So are you a Cubs or White Sox fan, Tim? [00:02:07] Speaker C: I'm a Tigers fan, but I love Chicago. [00:02:10] Speaker B: Okay. [00:02:11] Speaker C: Chicago is a great Catholic city, A strong Catholic civilization for decades and generations. I, I love Chicago. I, I go there very often. [00:02:22] Speaker B: We already got the comment of the podcast Cincy greater than Chicago. [00:02:27] Speaker C: Amen. [00:02:27] Speaker B: Anna Kate, you are absolutely right. So this is where. Oh yeah, and Michael mentions he's a Villanova basketball fan. Stop with the baseball. Yeah, I did hear that. So all the Villanova fans are gonna be insufferable now for a long time. Okay, so that, that's the important stuff. We already covered all the important things about the Holy Father, so why don't we just, just dive right in? Kennedy, why don't you give your thoughts about, like, were you surprised by how long it took? I should say how short it took, who was selected, the name he took, anything like that before we get into kind of who he is, you know, what were, what your. Were your thoughts when you first found out we had a Pope and who he is? [00:03:07] Speaker A: I mean, I didn't know what to expect. I was, I mean, I was. JP2 was elected before I was alive. I was in high school and didn't really care about anything but football when, when Ratzinger was elected. So I didn't know anything about anything. All I cared about was school things or whatever. And he's like, oh, we have a new Pope. Don't even know what that means. And, and then I wasn't a practicing Catholic until just after Francis was elected, so I don't have any remember remembrance or memories of going through the conclaves and meaning something, you know, so people said it might be weeks, months, days, hours, whatever. I looked at the history of the thing. I think Pius XII was elected after three or four ballots, and then Benedict the 15th was like 10 of them. And, and, you know, multiple days for some, day and a half for others. So I didn't know. So when he's elected, I thought, okay, it's been a couple days. It's a few ballots. It's kind of somewhere in the middle. So I wasn't really shocked, so to speak. I never, I never thought for a second that we would get a quote, unquote, like good traditional Pope. And I'm not being a doomer here, and I'm not saying he won't do good things. I have no idea what he's going to do. But what I meant was if you know, and you know, Eric, because you helped me with my editing for my book. Like, you know, modernism is everywhere. And even in the really good conservative minds, There you go. Shameless plug. Even in the really good conservative minds, there's just a lot of conciliation with Modernism in the Church today. So I wasn't expecting like a Pius XIII to come out. At the same time, I wasn't expecting a Leo the 14th either. And who knows what to make of it. But my initial read is basically as follows. First of all, he wore the right stuff That's a good sign. And even if he's a modernist, it's still a good sign. And because Pius X talks about this in Bishendi and he says some modernists show an affinity for the traditional liturgical traditions, but because they speak to the faith of particular believers, basically it speaks to them so they like it. Well, if he likes traditional stuff and he wants to let us have it, well, it'll defend itself once it's allowed. So I'm not that upset about that. Who knows what that means. And then he gave the blessing, following the ritual. And I looked up Pope Francis and his. I don't even think Pope Francis did his initial one in Latin. I think he actually did in Italian. I might be wrong on that, but I think it was in Italian. So that's a good sign. And I listened to his address and I was able to listen to it in Italian and Spanish because he spoke both. And yeah, he talked about dialogue and stuff, but he talked about Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary a lot. And again, I'm not expecting a Pope to come out and not mention dialogue or not mention encounter etc. Because every single Pope, I mean, people kind of forget. Even Ratzinger talked about that stuff. He was a big fan of dialogue and encounter and all these sorts of things. This isn't anything new. I mean, what do people think after 60 years of modernism reigning in the Church, that all of a sudden some guy flips a switch and he comes out and he's doing his PI. 10th impression like that's just not going to happen. So all in all, I was surprised at who it was in the sense of, didn't know anything about him. And my hope, my, my, my initial gut feeling is that he chose the name Leo for a reason. I, I can't believe he didn't choose John Paul or, or Francis. I mean if, I mean that's been thing. I mean Benedict was more towards the center, more towards tradition. And he showed that by using, showing an older name. And he definitely was someone more concerned with continuity with the past, hence he have even had the hermeneutic thereof. So this man choosing Leo, my gut tells me that his time in Latin America, you know, he's very much about the anti consumerist kind of anti, let's call it stereotypical capitalist mentality imbibed in the works of Leo. So if he does want to bring back sort of this mentality of having a more Catholic social sphere, there's a lot of anti liberalism in that. So we'll see what happens. That's really all I have to say thus far. [00:07:12] Speaker B: What do you think, Tim? What were your first thoughts? No, you're muted. [00:07:18] Speaker C: Yeah. So I'm just so happy and excited to experience that. I, I, it was, I'm so excited for so many reason. Reasons. The first reason is because we get to be Catholic and we can have eternal life through Jesus Christ in this true Church, the one true church of God. And the entire world saw all the beauty of this whole event. I mean, I, I had my two brother in law, I don't know if they're maybe listening, my two brother in laws who are not Catholic. They, they've been like asking me all the whole time for, they got to experience that with me. They, I mean, so many people were here seeing all the beauty. There was so much beauty, liturgical beauty, so much chanting in Latin for the papal funeral, the opening conclave Mass, so, so beautifully presented. I mean, do they have as much of this good technology through everything with Pope Francis? Probably not, but certainly not with Benedict. And less and less and less. So it's like more and more coverage of this incredible event. I was, I will remember this for a long time because I was actually teaching my high school Latin class when he was announced, and we had actually studied the Latin. We had, when we looked at the text of Habemus Popham and Gaudium Magnum and all that, we had studied it all. We had looked at the vocab words and look at the grammar and everything, we're like, okay, so when he comes, they're going to say, and that happened right as that happened. And so we're like, oh, here's the Latin. We just studied this. And then he pulled out the Latin for, as you said, I don't know if Pope Francis did that traditional Latin blessing at the end, which they said, you get a plenary indulgence for that. Oh, plenty of indulgences are raining down from the Vatican. That's pretty, that's building the bridge, like, for real. Let's build a real bridge. And so he, it was so funny because I was watching with my lap. And so I got these high school Aladdin students watching the Latin so that he, he got the Italian translator translating, and then they got the Spanish translator jumps in and when he's talking in Spanish and then he moves to the Latin and then they're like, and they didn't know what to say, the commentators like, I can't translate that. Sorry. So then my Latin students that we like with her Latin, and I, I, I'm The Latin teacher and I didn't know all, all the Latin, so. Sorry. But we, we got through a lot. A lot. It was, it was fantastic. It was so much fun. So I'm just so grateful to be Catholic. I agree with every single thing Kennedy just said. I would just add, I'm excited he's an Augustinian because I am. Huge affinity for St. Augustine and the Augustinian tradition as distinct from the Thomistic tradition. I'm really excited. Very, very excited. [00:10:00] Speaker B: Yeah. This is my third Conclave election of a Pope. I really have seen as a Catholic. I was so pumped about Joseph Ratzinger. I mean, I was literally screaming like a little girl. I think, if I remember correct, I was totally like, I have no idea who this guy is when Bergoglio was elected as Francis, but I did. I mean, like, you know, you look back at when Francis came out in the logia, it was pretty uncomfortable. It was, like, kind of awkward. I mean, I just was at the time, I remember chalking up to just like, well, the guy just is from a worldwide audience. I mean, who wouldn't necessarily, like, get a little choked and a little bit, like, you know, nervous at it, but when, when he came out. Okay, first of all, I want to say I'm not surprised. I'm, like, shocked that he, he was. That that Prevost was elected Pope. I am very surprised it happened on the fourth ballot, though. I, I, he was really presented as a compromise candidate. Like somebody if you couldn't get peril in, you couldn't get Zupi, Tagla or something like that, you'd go, you know, kind of previs. Would be more acceptable to a wider range. One thing to remember, people, the conservatives could have been completely united, but there's only about 20 or 30 of them. They could not block a candidate that most people wanted. And so that's, that's always important to remember that. So I'm a little surprised they went so quickly to him. My thought is they actually this, they, they. It had coalesced around him before the Conclave even started. I don't think you get a Pope in the fourth ballot without that being the case, that at least he had some significant support going in. I am, you know, I'm surprised because he's American, but I think the American taint, as it would have among many of the cardinals doesn't exist with him because the fact that he basically spent his entire ministry life outside of the United States, so nobody's gonna mistake him for a MAGA guy or anything like that. So I, I was so I, I think though, I, I, I'll back up what Kennedy said, that like, I think at this point I'm gonna hold out hope. I mean honestly, I wasn't, you know, we're not getting a pious 10th reincarnation, but I was, I kind of want a guy who's going to, honestly, I was kind of hoping for the best is that he leave us alone. [00:12:16] Speaker A: Do you want to know what's, do you want to know what's interesting though? Sorry to interrupt, but I just saw something, I was, we were joking before we came on. We got the first mega Pope, which I don't actually think would be a thing by the way. I'm all happy for my American friends loving Trump, but there's a lot of anyway, problems with the more whatever point is though, this, they pulled his voting records because he's a registered Republican and he's got like a full on Republican voting record. So Charlie Kirk posted it. So there you go, that's interesting. And his, the consensus on him is that his general ideology is conservative and his partisanship is strong Republican based on his voting record. So I guess the years that he's been in America as a registered Republican, they have that, they have that reported and the years where he's out of America, he didn't vote in certain things because he wasn't around for the primaries anyway. So that's interesting. But also people have also been saying, isn't this the man who sacked Strickland? Is that how that actually happened? Was he, I'm not really sure what the details are. [00:13:20] Speaker B: Well, we know how Francis ran the Vatican. If Francis wanted it done, it got done. And there might have been another person who actually sign the papers or something, but it's not like they had much of a choice. [00:13:31] Speaker A: Well, also, I just, I mean, I think I love Bishop Strickland. Anyone who goes, comes out swinging against the Pope under a Pope Francis is going to get sacked. Yeah, that's just a fact. It doesn't make it right. But you know, there are, there are plenty of bishops out there who do hold the views that Bishop Strickland does and they just don't say them publicly. I wish they would, but they don't. And they weren't sacked. People have to understand that it's a very complicated thing. You know, it's like if you come out, you know, if you put your head up, you might get it smacked down. And that was under the reign of terror, basically. So it's not necessarily indicative of things that are to Come. And it is kind of interesting. Pope Leo XIII composed the St. Michael Prayer and he was elected on the apparition of St. Michael Memorial. So I don't know, who knows, we're grasping for straws here, but it is. [00:14:25] Speaker B: I did think of that St. Michael this morning when I was praying and I saw it was the vision of St. Michael was today on the old calendar. And I just thought if a Pope selected today, really we should put his pontificate under protection of St. Michael. So, you know, it's hopeful for that, I think. Really, I don't think anybody would accuse the three of us of wearing rose colored glasses when it comes to how things run in church. We've all spent the past few years being very clear about what we thought were the deficiencies in how Pope Francis ran the church. And going back before Pope Francis, I mean, don't read Kennedy's book if you want rose colored glasses. I'll put that way, you know, what happened to Catholicism, the heresy behind the current crisis. I mean, he hits hard on it and you know, the modernism that it infects more than just Pope Francis. So I don't think any of us are saying that. I do think though, there is a certain need for a Catholic attitude towards these things. I wrote an article back in 2023 where I said basically Pope Francis shouldn't get the benefit of the doubt anymore. And I made it clear that like, because of his actions, his words, everything he has done, we don't need to parse out and try to find some way what Francis said was actually fine, even though it wasn't. I do think though, and I thought this was Francis when he first became Pope. I do think you absolutely in charity need to give Pope Leo XIV the benefit of the doubt, that you do need to not scroll, you know, find anything he said in the past be like, look, obviously he's, he's the worst. Obviously he's going to be terrible. And even when he says certain things, like when he talked about dialogue and encounter in his, in his first little speech there, like you mentioned, Candy, of course he did. I'd be willing to bet that 98% of the Cardinals, had they been elected, would have brought up dialogue in their opening speech. I mean, that's just the reality. There have been a couple who wouldn't have. That's just the language of the church today. [00:16:25] Speaker A: It's also respectful to, when you follow someone to like he's, I mean, listen, I listened to it in Italian. Not that the translators weren't correct, but I listened to it, like, fresh as it was happening in Italian. And he was saying, like, basically what you would expect someone to say after they're elected Pope and saying nice things about the men that came before him. That's it. I mean, you know, what are you going to say? You're going to come out and say, like, dad's back in town and I'm here to get you all to clean up your room and, like, you know, screw that guy who came before me. Like, it's not going to happen. He came out and said Pope Francis was a blessing to the city, and he urged us to da, da, da, da, to find a way forward, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And this is what we're going to do by following our Lord Jesus Christ and asking the Virgin Mary for help. It was like. It was very banal. [00:17:10] Speaker C: It's traditional, too. I think it's traditional to pay respects in some small way, even if just good manners. [00:17:17] Speaker A: It's just good manners. [00:17:19] Speaker B: Did that with Benedict. I remember. I mean, Francis talked a lot, very highly of Benedict all the time, early on his papacy. I see in the comments, there are definitely some doomers in the audience who are saying, we're coping and seething coping about, you know, this and all that stuff. I mean, I just think it's like a Catholic attitude that you don't go straight to hell has prevailed. The world is ending, the church is over and things like that. I just don't see that as the prop. I just don't think it's spiritually healthy, is probably the best way to put it. I just think it, you know, the way we should. We live our Catholic lives as traditionalists. I just got a homily. Oh, man. Our associate pastor just hammered it recently about how the need for charity among traditionalists. I mean, just hammered us. And, you know, he was absolutely right. And I think that that needs to be said here. And again, it's not like we're saying, oh, all of a sudden, now we have the next Pius X is. Is. Is a successor Saint Peter. But it does mean that we're just going to hope, as we should, and we're going to wait and see. Tim, what do you. Are you coping? [00:18:33] Speaker C: I was so happy that Jesus Christ has risen from the dead and we have a new Pope. I mean, this is so exciting. Yeah, I think that, that, that. But we need to talk about what is. What do we do in the spiritual. I think what you're saying right there, that is a Catholic attitude. You could use it. Use whatever gen Z buzzword you want to do to vilify that attitude. But it is the Catholic attitude to love your own father. It's not Catholic. To harden your heart against your father. That is not. That's modernist, y' all. You want to be a modernist, harden your heart against your father. That's exactly what the modernists do, because they hate their forefathers. They kill them. They cut off their heads, they cut off their kings. That's exactly what the modernists do. So if you want to be a modernist and cancel people, you can be a doom and gloom, whatever. But as for me and my house, I want to be a Catholic. Like, let's. Let's just give thanks for all. So many great things. One thing I wanted to point out here is do you. Do you all know the Pope? St. Thomas More became a great saint, Got his head chopped off for the Pope. He's an awesome saint, a manly man of God. There's this great photo or this painting where he's comforting his daughter. Well, he's going to get killed and he's comforting his daughter. That's how manly he was. Guess who the Pope was that he got his head chopped off. Paul III. Paul III's mistress was named Sylvia, and he had 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 children by Sylvia. So he was less than pious Pope Paul III. But St. Thomas More became a great saint. So let's all become saints and give thanks to God. [00:20:13] Speaker A: Well, also, the tariffs are working because now you have an American Pope, so you get him for free. [00:20:21] Speaker B: That's right, baby. [00:20:23] Speaker A: 25 discount on this Pope. [00:20:28] Speaker B: He does not. We don't have to pay anything when we get indulgences from him. We don't have to pay an extra tariff on that. [00:20:32] Speaker A: That's right. [00:20:33] Speaker C: Right. I mean, I hated paying for my indulgences. I don't know about you, but to. [00:20:38] Speaker B: All our Protestant listeners, we don't actually. [00:20:39] Speaker C: That was a joke. [00:20:41] Speaker B: We're joking people. Anyway, Kennedy. So what do you kind of think will be like the general overall feel of this pontificate without any knowledge whatsoever, but just kind of, what little. You know right now? Do you expect it kind of be more the same? Do you expect the governance to be different? This is where I think is an important point that people forget is there's ideology, there's governance, kind of. What's your kind of thoughts for the future? [00:21:14] Speaker A: I. I thought it would be very. I thought it would be. I thought it would be very unlikely to have a Francis II in that way that he acted. I just Think it was so chaotic and people were just always unhappy. I thought no matter who was elected, they would generally speaking, decide on someone who had like a level of professionalism. Even here in Canada, something like that happened with our election. Not that they're the same, but Trudeau was despised by everybody by the time he resigned because he was just too much. Even the Liberals were like, I'm never voting again because this is insane. And they brought in basically an old, well, he's actually a friend of Donald Trump's from back in his economist days. But they brought in a, a centrist, you know, old white guy to just sort of be a CEO. And I thought something similar to that would happen in the church. Even if it was a guy like Parin, I thought something like that would happen where there just has to be a level of conscientiousness and respect for what people expect out of the office. Cuz that was all out the window with Francis. I mean he was very much, you know, God rest his soul. But the type of person who's willing to be hated by so many people from so many different sides is a special kind of individual. And that's a very rare duck. Pope Francis was rare that way. So my gut tells me that they probably trying to want, they probably try, want to try to calm things down a little bit, put out some fires. I've seen comments online from people who know him and whatever and that he actually likes to say the Latin mass himself. I've seen that. I don't even know if that's true, but I've seen that from people I know so and so and I was there with him and he says it with whatever at his private chapel. I don't know, he was able to. [00:22:53] Speaker C: Pronounce the Latin blessing. [00:22:55] Speaker A: He did it very well, didn't stumble around the Latin. So I mean just the signs, all signs point to some sort of moderate. The fact that he has a strong politically right wing voting record is interesting. That is fascinating. [00:23:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Cause he called out, he unbelievably a Pope actually has a Twitter account. I mean his own. He has a Twitter account. People are sharing. His most recent posts were retweets of America magazine and National Catholic reporter magazine criticizing J.D. vance for his ordo amoris comments. So that doesn't seem like somebody who would have a Republican voting record. But that's the thing is we got to be careful not to just find one thing and say, okay, obviously this means, you know, he shared this. That means he embraces everything of, you know, that that agenda or whatever the case may be. [00:23:47] Speaker A: Yeah. And some people are telling, some people are saying that he's just like Francis and he was involved in abuse, cover ups and stuff and I don't know, in Peru. So it's just one of those things. We just don't know. We have no idea. We also know, as Tim said, that some really bad men have been made Pope in the past and they turned out to actually be kind of decent at their poping job, you know, So I don't know. I just don't know. I'm not gonna, I'm not, you know, Charles Coulombe, mutual friend of all of ours and the uncle of Catholic Twitter. You know, he always says I'm not going to give them all my hopes or all my fears. So I'm not going to do that. I gotta, I gotta sign off for a minute though, but I'll be back in a bit when my call's done. Talk to you in a minute. [00:24:27] Speaker B: Gentlemen. He's gonna hop off for me. He's got another radio interview to promote his book. Here it is. [00:24:33] Speaker C: How to Win Friends and Influence People by Kennedy Hall. [00:24:35] Speaker B: Right, exactly. I wanna, I want to talk about a few other things here though, about this pontificate. The first is one concern of mine is that there are some accusations of him covering up some abuse situations. And I thought that if the cardinals are smart, they wouldn't pick anybody who had any potential connection to that whether they were guilty or innocent. And I'm, I'm going to say I'm not claiming he is guilty at all. I'm just simply saying there were accusations that were serious enough to kind of get out there that will this. Now, do you think this is going to be a handicap from day one for Pope Leo xiv? That, that, that it'll be like. Because this was a big criticism of Francis, of course to say he was very light on many of the, the, the bishops who were, who had covered up abuse allegations. Do you think this is going to be like, I mean, how big a deal do you think this is going to be? [00:25:35] Speaker C: It can't, it certainly can be, it can be a huge crutch. It all depends on how he governs the. I think that one thing that's helpful to remember is the reality of bureaucracy when there is a sexual abuse cover up like it does. Like let's say it happens in, you know, diocese of Whatever xyz. So the reality of what happened in that cover up was that there's a massive bureaucracy of dozens and dozens of People in a diocese, and there were a bunch of bad actors who did something, and then they lied about it and they pulled strings or whatever, whatever, whatever. And no matter what, the bishop gets, gets the blank, gets all the blame for it. Okay, so the bishop may have been personally involved in that or may have not, but either way, he gets the blame because it's his bureaucracy. The same thing with popes, by the way. Pope Francis, even though he has a particular personality, obviously Pope Benedict, you know, an encyclical is not just. The Pope doesn't go down to his desk and just write an encyclical. He has a massive bureaucracy of hundreds and hundreds of people. And we don't. We have no idea when that actual text gets to him. Like, how much of it has he even written himself personally, or does he just put his name on it? There's so many different moving parts in this massive bureaucracy, especially the Vatican bureaucracy. So only God only knows something. You know, the only thing he's. He's totally guilty of is the words that come out of his mouth, you know, when he's talking live. We know that much. But it's, you know, how many, how much will the Pope actually have to answer for? But we can easily blame him. This is. This is another modernist thing to do, is that something happens in any government of the world. We blame everything on the leader. Obviously, he may have been personally responsible for every single thing that just happened. He may have been lied to, he may have been deceived. He may be totally not culpable because of xyz. But at some point, we. We can, as you said, at some point we might come to a point where it's just irrational to give somebody the benefit of the doubt anymore. There's so many evidence, so many things, evidence contrary. We'd have to deny our own rationality to try to give him a pass now. And that's kind of where many of us came to with Pope Francis after so many things going on. So it's a really, really difficult and complex thing. There's so many things we just don't know about, what things go on. I think that's. The media might pick up on that. They might say, oh, you know, he has this history now. He's got to answer for that. I mean, what is he going to do with Rupnick? Yeah, what is he going to do with all this stuff going on? What is he going to do with. Bet you. What is he going to do with so many different things? Like, I, I will say this about Bureaucracy. Father Charles Murr, who was a Vatican Insider in the 1970s, he was the one who was personally involved in the original, the Masonic investigation that Paul vi initiated in 1975. And he was the one who comments on John Paul one's potential murder. And he said the only way that the Vatican can be cleaned up is if the new Pope literally sacks every single bureaucrat, every single one, good and bad, just cleans the entire house and then he appoints his own guys who he knows he can trust. That's the only way anything's going to change. So, like, even if, even if Leo the 14th is an awesome Pope, like, I would say Benedict is a pretty good Pope. John Paul II is pretty good Pope, but only even Benedict, like, he was the one who really started to crack heads and really start to crack down on, on sex abuse, but he still didn't clean it all up going on. [00:29:32] Speaker B: Yeah. And he ended up quitting because of like the. So, yeah, I think that, I think that. I just, I just think it was, it would have been best probably at least politically speaking or whatever, if they had picked somebody who had no, you know, accusations of COVID up against him. Again, I'm not saying he's guilty. I have no way of knowing because it looks like I'm looking. What I've seen is there are people who say, yeah, he, he's, he's bad, he covered up. And there's people who say, no, they've defended him, that, no, he was not, you know, he did not do anything really wrong. So I think, though, I think what will happen, something you mentioned, I think we'll know a lot based upon who he starts picking for many of the, the premier offices at the Vatican. Because ultimately, first of all, everybody who was under Francis official automatically they lose their office as soon as all the prefects, everybody, they lose their office as soon as the Pope dies. But it's not uncommon for a Pope to just keep people on when he becomes Pope, just because think about it. He, he, he's got to do so much at first. And if he doesn't appoint somebody, that means it's on him. I mean, it's like, you know, there's got to be somebody doing this to, to, you know, to keep the lights on and all that. So I wouldn't freak out if like, most of the people stay on. I think, though, within the first year or two. That's why we, I do think we have to be patient. So, for example, let's just use an example. Let's say Cardinal Fernandez the former Prefect of the Diascora of the Congregation of Doctrine of Faith, who I think we'd all agree should not be part of the office that formerly known as holy, as you would put it, much less in charge of it. He should probably be investigated by it. But that being said, if, let's say it's just announced. Yeah, Fernandez just stays on for now. I'm not going to freak out about that either. I'd be more excited if he says he's gone and he picks somebody else soon. But at the same time, it's going to take some time before Leo the 14th will decide. Okay, do we want to. Do I want to bring new, new blood in here, new people or not? I think ultimately though, I think he's a Pope. Like, I actually predicted this. I predicted that. Not him, not Nostradamus. I predicted that we would likely get a Pope who's ideologically aligned with Francis, but not the same style as Francis, because remember, Francis was a double edged sword and both edges were bad. What I mean by that is on the one hand, you know, he was very lackadaisical about doctrine, very, you know, confusing people all the time. But on the second hand, the way he governed the Church, I think I would actually argue was actually worse than. Was a worse, the worst aspect of his papacy. I mean, just the great example is the picking on the traditionalist Catholics who did Traditionis Custodis. Like, what was the purpose of just going after this small group in the church and saying I'm going to do everything I can to shut you people down because I don't like some of your mean tweets or something? I mean, that's almost what it came across as and it was just silly. And the bishops, I think I remember the day Traditionus Custodes came out that morning. Our, our local bishop, who's now retired, who's a solid bishop, but nothing spectacular. He, you know, this is Archbishop Snur and he. On the radio, you could just tell. And he's very much a diplomat. I mean he could, you know, he, he knew how to play the game. You, he couldn't hide his frustration with this decision on, I mean, just the tone of his voice. Everybody knew. Oh my gosh, he is not happy. Not because he's, to my knowledge, he never celebrated the traditional at Mass. To my knowledge, he never like, you know, publicly endorsed any of that. He allowed it, but because he knew this is like just an additional headache in a world that's full of headaches for any bishop. And so that's an example of Francis's management style, his governance style, which, of course, there's so many stories. A lot of them are kind of behind the scenes, you know, at the Vatican, the dictator pope, all that stuff. But I don't think we realize how much a big deal that is. So if, for example, let's say Leo XIV, let's just say he's 100%, 100% aligned with Pope Francis as far as his vision for the church, his vision of the faith, all that stuff, let's just assume all that. I'm willing to bet he probably is close to him. That being said, it doesn't mean he thought it was a good idea to implement Tradicinius custodes, for example. Doesn't mean he thinks it's a good idea to insult priests, young priests, any chance he can. Doesn't mean he thinks it's a good idea to cause confusion. Know it's causing confusion, then just let it go. All those things were things Francis did. And we can't just assume Leo is going to do the same. I, I, I, I mean, I, I can't get over the fact that how different he looked coming out than Francis did. He just looks so comfortable out there, which makes you a little bit nervous because, don't you, I mean, you know, it's like, do you realize what's happening? Maybe he was in shock, I don't know. But just that, you know, just the fact that he was more comfortable, I just, that's what I think. I think that I'm not expecting, again, him ideologically to be way different than Francis. He's a Vatican II pope. He's going to be in line with the Vatican II popes. But there's a lot, I kind of, I've thought for a while that if we're left alone, we, meaning faithful Catholics, as far, you know, traditional Catholics, you know, you're conservative Catholics. If we're left alone, we will grow naturally and we will eventually be the dominant force in the Church. We're nowhere near that now. I don't claim we are, but I do think that, you know, that I think time will tell. Again, people are getting annoyed. I think that saying, give them benefit of the doubts of that, but I just don't see any other way to live, frankly. And I think we don't recognize how uniquely, I'll just say blatantly how uniquely awful Francis was as far as, you know, every aspect of his papacy really was harm souls. And I don't think we can just assume that's going to be the case just because somebody happens to be ideologically aligned with Leo, with, With Francis. [00:36:06] Speaker C: Yeah, I remember Pope Francis. Initially, he could. So he confirmed Cardinal Sarah Carson. Sarah was opposed by Pope Benedict to continue to do the reform of the reform. He. Cardinal Sarah was given that mission by Pope Benedict. Pope Francis came in and he confirmed it. Sarah continues. And then Pope Francis sacked him because he made a speech about Order Orientum. And some of the cronies of Francis didn't like him, so they influenced Francis to sack him. But then Pope Francis confirmed the Latin Mass. People don't know this. Pope Francis actually confirmed the Latin Mass before he reversed it. Traditional was a, an abrogation of Pope Francis's own decrees because Pope Francis decreed several decrees which added new saints to the Latin Mass missal. So this was, it was, this was confirming some more on Pontificalum, y' all. Sumorum Pontifical said you can add new saints. Like, I think it was Padre Pio or whatever. No trads can argue about that new saint. Right. Anyways, the point is that Pope Francis. So he reversed himself. Reversed himself, reversed himself like four times. Regarding the Latin Mass right there. If we just continue to think of those four examples, and then we got tradition custodes. So it's just so complicated, and we don't know what we're going to get. I think of Pope Pius ix, Pope Bias IX Blessed. He's an incorrupt. Did you know that? He began his pontificate as a liberal pope. He was a liberal pope. He came to Vatican City in 1846, and he said, I'm gonna create democracy. He didn't say this exactly, but he's like, he gave some democracy to the Vatican, the Papal States. He, he, he was huge. He was like. Everyone was like, yeah, he's a liberal pope. And then the liberals said, okay, great, we're going to take over. They took over Rome. The, the, the revolutionaries slit the throat of his papal. And, and, and the pope had to run away from Rome, and then he came back as the uber traditionalist that he is. So who knows what's going to happen? [00:38:16] Speaker B: So you think you're saying we should have some type of revolution in Rome and, like, kind of take the traffic. [00:38:21] Speaker C: No, I'm not advocating for violence. Please don't be violent. [00:38:25] Speaker B: Yeah, and I think also, like, it's the, the mess that Francis made, to use his own language, the mess that he made. I just think that it's so deep that it's beyond a single pope, no matter who he was. If Burke had come out there, it would have still been the case that he could only undo a few things. And so I don't think that that's there as well. I do want to go back to something you and I talked about when we were on the, when we, we talked about the Conclave last week. We said it was like a battle between Europe or Germany and Africa. And really I was kind of saying Europe, America versus the peripheries. And I think it's pretty clear Europe did win. I mean, I'm not, I'm not willing to say yet Germany won, but Europe did win. I mean, they had the votes. They, they elected the Pope. This is not an African. I mean, obviously he's not actually African, but he's not an African type Pope either. He's definitely on more of the European type of, of Pope that we're going to have. So do you think that. Where was I going with that? Do you think that that means we're just. I mean, do you think that, do you think we can really make any advances, like tradition can make any advances under a Pope like this? Or is it more just like a holding period, let's hope for the best, is that he leaves us alone and. Or do you think actually in the Church itself we might get some advances? [00:39:58] Speaker C: Well, let me first comment on what you just said first and then answer your question. The problem with Latin America is that it's very German, actually. This is why Francis was so Germany, because it's. Because it's Marxist liberation theology, y' all. So it's, it's very German in that sense. So Latin America is infected with the poison of liberation theology. So it's just like the air, air that many people breathe in those areas, unfortunately. I should say, in fairness, because of American foreign policy, by the way, anti Catholic foreign policy in Latin America since the Monroe Doctrine way back in like 1820. Right. So it could be that he comes in with those influences. Pope Francis certainly showed his anti American stance, but Leo XIV is an American, so it's hard to like, be anti. [00:40:51] Speaker B: Yeah, that's going to be interesting. I, I didn't even think of that. Well, like the one, one of the defining characteristics of France was how much he hated America. Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine pop Leo XIV is going to hate America like Francis did. And I think that's a big deal because I really think a lot of Francis's actions, for example, against the traditionalists, were undercurrent. That is anti Americanism, because there's no question Aside from maybe France, America is where the loudest traditionalists are in the church. And that's where the most energy behind traditionalism is, is in America. And so you wonder how much of his anti Americanism kind of seeped into his anti traditionalist attitude as well. And that's not going to exist, I would presume. I mean, there are some people born in America who hate America, but I don't. Especially if he voted Republican at some point in his life. I can't imagine he's anti American. I mean, come on. [00:41:43] Speaker C: And yeah, some people speculate that Pope Francis tradition custodes was influenced by an anti Americanism. We know that Andrea Grillo, Grillo, who's an Italian, was the main influencers to create traditional custodes. And so. But let me, let me go back to another part that the main thing you said. Do you think a tradition can advance? Yes, I, I absolutely do. And what I want to emphasize right now, I mean, besides, you know, why would it still advance? Of course, because it's the power of tradition. It's Catholic faith, all those good things. The Holy Spirit is behind it, period. There's another factor here, and that's the very essence of what culture is. This is what I talked about in my book, City of God versus City of Man. Culture itself is made up of these four elements. Elders, cultists, tradition, piety. And one thing about culture is that it is stable. It maintains a status quo. What it should be doing is transforming more and more and more. But at the very least, culture itself is. It continues. It continues on even if it just stays the same. We want it to get better, but staying the same is better than getting worse because there has to be an active force to destroy the tradition, otherwise the tradition will just continue. And this is what we saw with tradition because the vast majority of bishops did not suppress the Latin Mass. And probably the reason they did not was not because they loved the Latin Mass, but was because they just cared about, let's just continue the status quo. It's just like way more of a headache for me as a bishop to like, go after this Latin Masses parish that's paying all their bills and sending their money to the diocese and keeping me in the black, like, why would I upset them? And then all the ideologues from the Vatican had to basically, like, intentionally find this bishop and like, force him and poke him and, and call him and try to keep on getting him to actually do. And then they suppressed the Latin Mass or they didn't, but like that, I think that the, you know, you really have to have a dictator governance style to get the Latin mat to really attack the Latin Mass. If you do nothing, it increases. If you promote it, it increases more. [00:43:58] Speaker B: It was a shocking move. I mean, even to this day, four years later, almost the tradition custodis was just a shocking move. It was so out in left field that like popes have, I mean really, popes have never done something like that before where you basically say, okay, there's a group of Catholics who are faithful. They're, they're, they're praying, they're donating to the church, all that stuff. But I just have such a petty animosity towards them that I'm going to do what I can to actually shut them down by shutting down the tradition, a traditional right of the church. It's crazy. And I just, honestly, I think there was very few cardinals. Cupich might be one of them. A few others who would have, who, who would, who really were on board with traditional custodians. I think there were some, don't get me wrong, I'm not naive, but out of the 133 cardinals, I bet you maybe 10 to 15 were really like, yeah, I think that was a good idea. Some were more maybe been like, okay, I don't mind implementing. And some were against it. I want to go through on the College of Cardinals report website. That's an excellent site by Edward Penton and Diane Montana, who compiled it. And I wanted to say go through the. Where he stands for our new Pope Leo and just say under ordaining female deacons, it actually says he's against, he said. During the synod on synodality in October 2023, Previs stated that clericalizing women, that is ordained them to clerical roles, would not solve the church's problems and might even create new ones. So clearly he's not a fam, by the way, just in general, he's not got a huge history of like talking about a lot of this stuff, so there's not a lot to go on. But it looks like he definitely, you know, is not a fan of ordaining female deacons, which I think is obviously a good thing now. Blessing same sex couples, it says. Although he expressed reservations about, quote, sympathy for beliefs and practices that contradict the gospel, Cardinal Previs showed less clarity about fiducia supplicants, stressing the need for national bishops conferences to have doctrinal authority to interpret and apply such directives as their local context given cultural differences. He therefore did not fully endorse or reject the Document. I think it's a good way to put it, but honestly, that actually gives me hope. There's a few things he's done don't give me hope, but this gives me a little bit of hope because the Vatican officials are saying that the bishops, National Bishops conference should implement this accordingly. That's basically telling Africa it's okay that you're rejecting this, which I think is a little bit shocking for somebody who was the, the, you know, so high up at the Vatican to basically be saying that because typically the, the, the, the line is always okay. Everybody has to, to stay in line. Everybody has to do exactly what the Pope says. He was basically saying, you don't have to. So I mean, I, I think ultimately everybody realized that was such a disaster document that, you know, I think they'd all kind of wish it went away except for May Cardinal Fernandez, and that's about it. What do you think about the kind of that, that comment of his that, you know, that he stressed the need for national Bishops conference to have authority to interpret fiduciary supplicants? [00:46:58] Speaker C: I, I. What I'd really like to know is like what. I don't know much about Peru. I mean, that's, that's the difficulty in understanding him. What exactly is the like. I mean, for example, I think many people misunderstand John Paul too, but if you understand Poland, Po, you know, Soviet communist Poland, post war Poland, I think you have a much better understanding of John Paul II and why he did what he did. Even some of the weird things he did make more sense in Poland. Whereas, like, what exactly is the situation in Peru? What is, what, what, how was he like as a bishop? What, what is the whole situation in Peru? I have no idea. I mean, maybe, maybe it would be a good idea to have that in Peru. And, and you know, that's why he said that, because it worked well in Peru. Maybe not. Maybe it's. Maybe he's a modernist trying to promote XYZ improve by means of the, of that. So, and that's what, how we knew about Francis. We understood Francis because the Argentinians hated him. They're like, he's awful. You know, dictator Pope comes out because Henry Cyr is a, is a Hispanic Englishman. He know. He was, he grew, I don't know if he grew up in Barcelona, but he's fluent Spanish speaking and he could get all those sources and give it to us in English. There's a big divide between the Anglophone and the Hispanophone universe because of the history between The British Empire. So I'd be really interested to see what is, what are the Peruvians say, and that is I've got, I do have a source that I got actually during this broadcast, so I'll share breaking news which I'll write about later. And I do have a Peruvian source and this comes from a very trusted source that I know who knows this source in Peru who's very well placed and it's bad news, y' all. This is his quote. He describes Prevost as, quote, a total, complete, utter disaster. Evil as Francis, but much smarter and involved in serious abuse. Cover up. End quote. That's the Peruvian comment one that ain't good. [00:49:23] Speaker B: Yeah, no, no, yeah, definitely that, that I, I hope that that person is woefully wrong. Let's just put it that way. I'm going to go through some more of his, the things on this about his positions under making priestly celibacy optional. No information we know. Restricting the Latin Mass. No information we know. We our knowledge at least at Penton and Montanya's knowledge, who have a lot of sources and they do a lot of good research. They did not know anything either. The Vatican China Secret Accords. No comments on that. Promoting a synodal church. It says he's in favor. It says Prevost is a strong supporter of synodality. He has been described as a vocal proponent of Pope Francis emphasis on making the church structures more inclusive and participatory. Seeing sendality as a way to address polarization within the church. He connects synodality with the need for consultation and lay involvement. Obviously, both of us, we have real problems with synodality as it's been practiced, not actual synodality as it, as it was practiced in the early church and still is practiced in the Eastern Catholic churches. But definitely that's, you know, I think that that's something we need to be concerned about. I mean, no other way to put, than say be concerned about that. You know, he's so much a fan of cindality. Now here's the thing. I wonder. Francis promoted synodality, but everybody knows he had no love of actual synodality. He was a dictator. That was a cover. 100% a cover. And typically the case is, is that when you have these, like especially progressive politicians, when they, they give language to certain things, they don't actually believe it. They just use it for their own power. But there are true believers who actually think, you know, these, this is a great thing. Like there's like supporters of Biden or Obama who actually believe some of the crap they throw out there. So we don't know if Prevost is actually a believer in true synodality or if it's just like going to be a cover like it was for Francis. So I think that it's a concerning sign but you know, we'll see. Also focusing on climate change, it says he's outspoken about the need for urgent action on climate change. He recently stressed that the church must move from words to action, warning against the harmful consequences of unchecked technological development. Advocating for a reciprocal, non tyrannical relationship with the environment. He is closely aligns with Pope Francis environmental priorities. I'm not an environmentalist. I don't, I think human, you know, made climate change is probably not really a thing. That being said, I don't really care that much about this as long as he doesn't make it a big deal like, you know, I don't care what his political views are on, on various things. What matters to me is okay, is he going to put unbacked, you know, sign non scientific statements as, and make them as important that Catholics must follow that more important than, you know, the doctrines of the faith. So I think that's, that's, you know, something we need, you know, again, so that, that's, I mean, what do you think? Does that, does that concern you more than it concerns me? His views on climate change? [00:52:43] Speaker C: I have, I mean whatever somebody says about the, the current scientific fad, I don't care what you're, I mean I'm not really that concerned. I, I, I mean there's a lot of scientific fads over the centuries. People have, and there's very different scientific discoveries that come out later. Like we find out something totally different. Oh, turns out it was totally different or, or that was true or whatever. What matters is what they do with that. Are they going to promote population control or like as you said, or dogmatize a scientific fad? Like I have no idea. I have not studied climate change or all this different stuff. I have no zero science, I've like negative scientific expertise expertise, you know, and, and I can understand people in different places of the world. You know, maybe they experience a lot of weather patterns or this or that, the other thing and you know, they think oh well this could be due to this and this and this. I have no idea. Like I, I'm a Michigander, for example, like regarding the environment. I'm a Michigander and Michiganders are, we are extremely conservationist. We love our natural beauty in Michigan and like the rural areas are extremely Conservative and we're conservationists because we love our state. That's not because we're progressive. Kennedy's back. It's because we're Michiganders. So like that's just me. Like maybe somebody in Chicago, you know, they talk about climate change because they're promoting all sorts of liberal, heretical, whatever. Because in Chicago they have, they don't have a lot of trees in Chicago like they do in Michigan. It's totally different. I don't know. Welcome back, Kennedy. [00:54:23] Speaker A: Tim's, Tim's an environmentalist now, is that what I mean? [00:54:25] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm an environmentalist. Here to hear first, we were just. [00:54:28] Speaker B: Going through on the College of Cardinals report kind of his views on certain things. And it, it seems like he's, he's a publicly opposed female deacons. He's been, he was kind of weak on same blessing, same sex couples. And I actually thought, I admit maybe this is rose colored glass glasses, but he basically said national Bishops conference can decide how to implement it. And to me, for a Vatican, a high Vatican official to say that is kind of a big deal because they're typically, you know, like, you got to toe the line. The big thing, I think probably the most concerning thing when I look at this is we were saying the, the environmental thing is like, he's very big on the climate change, but I don't even care. And neither is Tim, like, whatever, but he's very big into promoting the synodal church. He's been a big, he's been a vocal proponent of Pope Francis, emphasis on making the church's structure more inclusive and participatory. And I was saying, I want to get your feedback on this. Francis used synodality as a cover. He actually did not care about synodality. He did not care about like making people, you know, running things together. He was a dictator and that was his cover. So the question is, will popoly of the 14th, is it a cover for him or does he actually believe in a certain form of sindality? That might not be that bad because, I mean, I know maybe a traditional Catholic knee jerk would be against it, but if you look at like, you know, the early church and even the Eastern churches today, there are some benefits to true sendality actually as it's been practiced. So do you think it's like, basically there's no redeeming send out at this point. It's just been thrown under the bus. [00:56:06] Speaker A: Well, I mean, okay, I'm going to take a roundabout way of saying this short answer is I think C is silly. And I talk about that in the book, to be honest, in the way that it's conceived. And I think the whatever Eastern prelate that I cite in the book, he came out when Francis, I think it was the Ukrainian, Greek something or others, but he came out and basically said this synodality thing is not what we do here in the East. So I'm not a fan of synodality, I'm not a fan of democracy, I'm not a fan of anything basically, that is in the liberal era nonetheless. I mean, I think Pizzabala was pro the synodality in his diocese and his patriarchate and so forth. I mean, I don't know. Again, I don't expect anything actually traditional out of any of these men. I don't even think like, I don't even think a Cardinal Seurat or a Mueller would come in day one and be like, we're destroying the Sonatal process. I don't think they would. I think they would. I think they would try to retrofit it because that's just kind of how things go in, in Rome now. Also, I will say you guys were talking about climate change and stuff. One thing I will say, yeah, I get it. Climate change is a scam, all these kinds of things. The thing is, my friends, when you get outside of the North American bubble and you go to different parts of the world, you'd be shocked at the things that various people who you would consider conservative or right wing morally, you'd be shocked at how they view how government governance should go in your life. I'm here in Canada, I can tell you it's radically different than the United States. If you went to the average Canadian and said. Or the average Amer, if you're sorry. If the average Canadian conservative was questioned about what they thought should happen with health care, 99% of them would say, I'm happy with the way the government does it, it should just be more efficient. Whereas if I talk to any of my Republican friends, they think that supporting healthcare from the government makes you literally a communist. And I joke and I say, well, how much did your cast on your arm cost you? But I'm just kidding. But, you know, and you know, if you go to Italy, for example, very right wing, very conservative people, many of them, they're, you know, not pro the new marriage types and stuff. Like they're morally traditional people. They expect a lot of government invention in their lives and they're proud of it. And that's just different. It's just a different thing. And so for some people the whole climate change thing, like, if you're from a very impoverished place where you see a lot of poverty and things like that, and you see natural disasters and mudslides or whatever, they look at that as environmental management. And I'm not. I mean, I'm not trying to. People are going to say you're coping. I'm just saying that's how it is outside of North America. And so for some people, environmentalism things includes like forest management, as Tim was talking about. You know, for some people it includes like making you eat bugs and living in pods and there's kind of a lot of in between. So I have no idea what he even means. If he means, you know, he's from Latin America, he's been there for a long time. If he means something like, you know, like. Because you got to remember we're lucky, you know, even here in Canada, if you want to go one of the most beautiful, pristine, cleanest nature reserves in the world, go to the oil sands out in Alberta where they literally get oil out of the ground. And it's like a nature theme park around it because the regulations are so strict that there's like no polluting allowed. It's insane. And. But if you go to a place where they don't have those rules, it's just dumping a bunch of stuff in lakes and rivers and it looks like a hellscape. So I don't know what he means. So, you know, those are things we just have to wait and see because I don't care. I don't even know what he means by it. [00:59:54] Speaker B: Yeah, so he grew up. I mean, I'm trying to find when he left the United States kind of more permanently. And it looks like it was 1985 because he went to Villanova University, graduated in 77 with a Bachelor's. Then he got a Master of Divinity from Catholic Theological Union in Chicago and a licentious and doctorate in Canon Law from Pontifical College of St. Thomas Aquinas in Rome. So he's obviously in Rome for that. But it looks like after his ordination as priest in 82, he joined the Augustinian Peru mission in Peru in 85. So really. But then he spent 87, 88 back in the United States. So. But it looks like. But then actually I'm looking at this, he's been here More In 99, he returned to Chicago and was there for a couple years, for a number of years actually, until 2013. I thought I was in the impression before the Conclave happened, when I saw something about him was like, he basically was born American, but never really. He left and he's Peruvian or whatever. He spent most of his life in America, it looks like, which makes me wonder what you were just saying about how people outside the United States might perceive things. He's going to have at least some type of American conception. You can't help it growing up here of, you know, of living and living here. You know, how you look at things. So I think that's very interesting. I admit I'm just finding this out now as I read this. He's way more American than I remember when I first read this, before he became Pope, that, you know, he's lived a very, you know, most of his life here. I also want to note that. Were you guys surprised by how young he is? I mean, 69. Yeah. [01:01:32] Speaker C: Right. [01:01:33] Speaker B: There's a long time. Yeah. There's a decent chance 10 to 15 years is not. Yeah, could easily happen. And I was. I thought for sure they picked somebody over 75. I mean, I thought that's why I thought pizza ballet was always a, you know, really a pipe dream. Wouldn't actually happen. But, I mean, were you guys surprised by, you know, that they picked somebody that young? [01:01:58] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I was surprised. I was just looking up who was the bishop, because Bernadette is like the really bad guy from Chicago. And people have heard all the words. [01:02:09] Speaker B: A really bad guy, too. [01:02:11] Speaker C: True, true. I'm just talking about his formation. So he was. Prevost. Was ordained 1982. 82. And then he went to Peru in 85. So the bishop at that time was John Cody, who was the predecessor for Bernadette. So he actually left Burn. He left Chicago before Bernardin. [01:02:33] Speaker B: Well, note that he was always. He was always in the Order of St. Augustine. [01:02:40] Speaker A: Can I say something about the Augustinians, though, as well? [01:02:42] Speaker B: Yeah, please do. [01:02:44] Speaker A: So the Augustinians send at least some. Often they send their. If they send their seminarians here to the Oratorian Seminary, St Philip Neri, for four years. I have a friend who left, but he was there as the Augustinians were. Were gonna be. He was gonna have to leave. He was gonna do four years at the Oratorian Seminary. Excuse me. In the last three years at. At. In the Augustinian one. Wherever it would be. Somewhere in Chicago or somewhere around there in Illinois. But the point is, is that they're kind of all over the map. I mean, the Augustinian tradition is very, very old, obviously. So they. They're not. They're not disconnected from tradition. In some spots, those who come out of the Oratorian seminary here because some of the dioceses here as well will let students go to the St. Philip Neri Seminary in Toronto and then they'll do last three years at a diocesan seminary. Those are always the guys who say the TLM for diocesan TLM communities and so forth. I'm not saying they're, they're bang on and everything. But anyway, so it's, it's, it's, you know, who went to the, you know who went to the, or who were sending their priests to the oratorian seminary. The, the ones who got canceled near you, Eric, the Missionaries of St. John the Baptist or whatever, they were sent there for the first four years. So. Yeah, you know, and there was Augustinians there too. So it's just, anyway, it's all over the map. So again, I don't even know what to expect. I don't know. I don't know at all. [01:04:14] Speaker B: Yeah, as I, I like actually what John Perry just said, at least he isn't Jesuit. I'll put that. Yeah, I mean, thank God for miracles if nothing else. He's not a Jesuit. Okay, I'm gonna, you know, let's go ahead and just kind of get some final thoughts here. And so Tim, what are kind of your thoughts for specifically I want to ask you about like what do you think we as Catholics should be like we've talked about our attitude should be towards the new Holy Father, that we give him a certain deference, we give them a certain benefit of doubt as our, as our new Father before. You know, we don't just jump down and say, okay, the guy is a disaster or anything like that immediately. But what's kind of like what, what do you think are, should be our general attitude, our general kind of what to look out for and things like that as Catholics in this new pontificate? [01:05:05] Speaker C: Well, he who loveth not knoweth not God, because God is charity. So if you don't love him, you are not a Catholic the first and foremost and it's important that we keep our mouths shut and try to speak respectfully. I just quoted a very doom and gloom quote from a well placed source earlier in the podcast. But this was a source that, you know, was well placed in trying to you exercise the virtue of caution, which is to see and foresee, see and avoid future evil. This is, this is the unfortunate time that we're in where we have the situation. We have to love our Holy Father. We have to love and adhere to him. If he terms turns out to be not so good turns out to be evil. We still adhere to him and we pray for him. We suffer under him. We suffer the abuse of an abusive father. We suffer it like men of God, as Jesus Christ himself suffered. And so we, we need to, you know, our. What did our forefathers do under the bad popes? This is what we need to do. Let's just prepare for. For the worst and hope for the best. Did our forefathers, when they had bad popes, did they get on Twitter and they complain? No, they just suffered their stripes and they. And they put out their necks to suffer for the pope and die. That's what they did. So let's be men. What is the end of Psalm 26:27? It's wait for the Lord. Do manfully. Let thy heart take courage and wait for the Lord. So we need to wait for the Lord. The Lord is the one who is acting in this pontificate, whether the Pope likes it or not. God still uses popes, good popes or bad popes. And St. Augustine has this great remark in the the Mantins reading for so Holy Thursday, the Tenebrae service for Holy Thursday. St. Augustine says that evil men, evil men make the church stronger because the saints suffer from evil men, and then they become greater saints through their merit. So let's prepare for the worst, hope for the best. That's, that's my, my attitude. [01:07:26] Speaker B: How about you, Kennedy? [01:07:30] Speaker A: Well, again, I didn't have any expectations that we would get the quote, unquote traditional Pope because I didn't think there was anyone who could do it anyway. So I'm just going to wait and see. You know, I'm the old, the token SSPX guy. I took off a lot of your DEI boxes because I'm a foreigner. I have European citizenship and I'm in schism. So. But that's why we have you on here. That's why I'm diverse. I'm the diversity hire. But, but, you know, I don't mean to sound like I'm not. I'm. You know me. You guys both know me. I'm actually not a cynic at all. I'm kind of a hopeless romantic. Nothing changes. You are a Catholic? [01:08:12] Speaker C: Yes. [01:08:15] Speaker A: The traditional Latin mass is never going to be destroyed because it's the will of God. It just is the will of God that that be around because it's the will of all the saints and popes and doctors and fathers and so forth for so many centuries by the Holy ghost, uninterrupted for 2,000 years. And it's not going to go away. This Pope may or may not do something good or bad about it. We don't even know yet. And we will see what happens. And if he does something good, great. If he does something bad, that's bad. And I'm going to take inspiration from Archbishop Lefebvre, as I always do. And if it was necessary to resist something because it would be harmful to your faith or those under you, then that's something you do in that moment. But if the Pope calls you to go to Rome because he wants to have a conversation, you do that. And that's really all we can do. [01:09:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's good advice right there, is that, you know, nothing changes. Ultimately, the Catholic faith does not change. How we practice the Catholic faith does not change. And we are obedient as much as reason and our faith will allow. I wanted to share with you guys. My spiritual reading in the morning, right now has been from the Acts of the Apostles. And this morning. This morning I had this passage. I'm sure I'm reading from a Bible that doesn't actually have chapter numbers. So it's later in act. It's from the Acts of the Apostles, and it says. And Paul, looking steadfastly on the council, said, brethren, I have lived before God in all good conscience until this day. And the high priest Ananias commanded those who stood by him to smite him on the mouth. Then Paul said to him, God shall smite you on the. Shall smite you, you whited wall. And do you sit to judge me according to the law and command me to be smitten contrary to the law? And I want to say when I read that, I had a little bit of a jolt, like, yeah, that's right. The high priest was out of line, and Paul knocked him down like he should. And I admit, I was like, okay, that's the way to do it, brother. Then I kept reading, unfortunately, and those who stood by said, do you revile God's high priest? And Paul said, I did not know, brethren, that he was high priest. For it is written, you shall not speak evil of a ruler of your people. And I will say I was kind of taken aback by that. Don't worry, I haven't become a hyperpapilist. I'm not a pope splainer all of a sudden. But it was a good warning to me that you better check all the boxes before you criticize the Pope. What I mean by that is the boxes are. Did he actually say something? That is Contrary to the faith. Did he say something that brought scandal? Did he do something that brought scandal? Something like that. And did you then say your criticism of him in charity? If you can't check those boxes, then you really, you know, you're speaking ill of a ruler of the people. Because I don't think, by the way, that's a way Paul said that, like, all of a sudden, that's a rule. You can never speak criticisms of our religious leaders. Obviously, Jesus called his religious leaders whitewashed tombs, things like that. St. Thomas Quina makes it very clear, no one is due absolutely obedience but God alone. So I'm not saying, you know, like I said, I'm not a Pope Splainer, but I do think it's a, it's a, it was a challenge to me, at least, to remind, and I kind of did think of it at the time of, okay, I got to remember this with the next Pope. Not that I refuse to ever criticize him, no matter what he does, but that I check all the boxes that, you know, am I praying for him? Am I. Do I need to say something? Like, it's not like every single thing he does, I have to criticize. You know, I have to say something. But. And the reason I bring this up now is the Pope hasn't done anything yet, so how can you criticize him already? He literally has. Not even. He's, he's given one little speech, that's all, and he's blessed us in Latin. So, like, I don't see how we can already jump on the, he's a disaster and all this stuff. I really don't. I, I, I mean, I'm glad Tim read that, that quote from that source in Peru, but I, I don't like that attitude. I'll be the first. I'll just admit it. Maybe it's coping or whatever. I just feel like, let him be Pope if he does something. If all of a sudden he says, who am I to judge tomorrow? Then, okay, maybe we're like, oh, but he hasn't even done anything yet. The guy's probably asleep right now. Just, you know, and he said one thing out in the public, and that's it. So I think we just. I would. That's kind of what I want to leave it with was have that attitude going forward. We're not going to become a Pope Splainer magazine. And now there's 1 Peter 5. And I know Kennedy's not going to, so we don't have to worry about that. But at the same time, I Do think we want to. Like I said at the beginning, let's give Pope Leo xiv, our new Holy Father, the benefit of doubt. [01:13:10] Speaker A: It's a great name. I mean, I'm. [01:13:12] Speaker B: I mean, it is a great name. [01:13:13] Speaker A: I'm gonna go pick up. My kids are at Friends of Ours farm right now. They go there in the afternoon a couple days a week to hang out with the. The animals. And. And. And I'm gonna go pick him up and tell him there's a new Pope, and we're gonna have a dinner, and I'm gonna tell him It's Leo the 14th, and we're gonna pray for him every night, and they're gonna be excited, and that's all there is. And if something bad happens, that will really suck, and I hope it doesn't. And. But it hasn't yet. So that's all there is. [01:13:40] Speaker B: That's right. Amen. Yep. And I watched the. I watched him come out with my kids. I. My three kids. All my kids on the family chat, were texting like crazy when it's happening. My. My daughter, who's got a nursing baby, she was like, you gotta text me when he comes out, because I'm. I'm gonna be nursing. I'm not gonna be, like, watching. I'm like, okay, I will. You know, and stuff. Like, so we're all going crazy about it. Like, you know, my. One of my daughters. Two of my daughters are at work, and they're trying to, like, figure out how to watch it while they're still working, stuff like that. So, anyway, the point is, is, like, one of my daughters stepped away for a moment right before he's about to give the apostolic blessing. And they made. I was very happy. Vatican media said the. The apostolic blessing and the plenary indulgence applies to everybody who's watching. You didn't have to be there. And so I yelled to my daughter, I said, get. She was, like, making lunch. I said, come back here. Come back here. Because I want her to make sure she understood. You know, we're watching this. We're getting absolute blessing from our new Holy Father. And I think that's the right attitude to have to recognize the Holy Father. And, you know, plenary indulgence was mentioned in. In the opening thing. He blesses us in Latin. I mean, come on, guys, at least let's. But one day where we're like, you know, you know, that's good. So we haven't had that for how long. How long has it been since we had a pope bless us in Latin, so. Okay, well, I'm gonna. Let's cut up there. And I appreciate, by the way, both you, Tim, and Kennedy for jumping on kind of, like, you know, late notice and all this. Hopefully it was helpful to everybody watching, so. Okay, everybody out there, until next time. God love you, Sam.