Traditional Catholics and Pope Leo XIV

[00:00:00] Foreign, we have a new Pope. And how have traditional Catholics responded to this new Pope? And how should they respond? I want to talk about that today on Crisis Point. Hello, I'm Eric Sammons, your host, editor in chief of Crisis magazine. Before we get started, just want to encourage people to smash that like button to subscribe to channel, let other people know about what we're doing here. [00:00:30] Also, this is the big thing. In May and in December, we do our fundraisers twice a year. Only twice a year. We do not bug you throughout the year. But I am going to bug you. Today we're doing our fundraiser, our twice a year fundraiser. Everything we offer, all our content is offered for free, but of course, it's not free to produce. So we do appreciate if you could donate to Crisis magazine. Particularly, we love the monthly donors. Just go to crisismagazine.com and a pop up will show up asking you to donate. Please click on that, fill out the information and become a monthly donor if you can. We do appreciate that and that's what keeps us going. [00:01:07] And like I said, we're not going to charge for our content, but we do ask for donations twice a year, and this is one of those times. [00:01:14] Okay, so let's get started. First of all, just people in the live chat. This is a live podcast on Tuesday afternoon. [00:01:22] Please feel free to make your comments, your questions, and I'll try to address some of them at the of the program. [00:01:29] Now, I wanted to talk about the traditional Catholic response to Pope Leo. Now, I don't think it's a secret that traditional Catholics were not happy with Pope Francis. Throughout the 12 years of his pontificate, traditional Catholics were constant critics of Pope Francis. And it appeared to normal people that Pope Francis was no fan of traditional Catholics. He seemed to actually actively hate them and want to do everything he could to suppress the traditional Latin Mass. [00:01:59] Now, before I get started to talk about how then had traditional Catholics responded to the election of Pope Leo xiv. Let me just do a real quick definition. What do I mean by traditional Catholic? [00:02:12] All these labels are inadequate. I get that. If you call somebody a progressive Catholic, a conservative Catholic, a JP2 Catholic, a traditional Catholic, whatever you want to say, every label you use is going to be somewhat inadequate. We use it simply because we have to, because our language demands it, because the divisions in our church demand it. The fact is, you no longer can say somebody is just Catholic and know what that means about what they believe. I mean, Father James Martin is a Catholic, as so is Bishop Athanasius Schneider. But clearly they do not have the same beliefs in many ways. So by traditional Catholic, I'm simply meaning somebody who is not generally enthusiastic about the changes that happen in the church after Vatican ii. Now, some traditionals might disagree on the cause of those changes. Like, was it Vatican II itself? Was it the spirit of Vatican ii? What was it exactly? But essentially the changes that happen after Vatican ii. So that would include, obviously, the liturgy. That's what everybody thinks about first. It would also include the popular piety that changed after Vatican ii. It include teachings on, for example, and practice of ecumenism, interreligious dialogue, religious freedom, things of that nature. So in general, a traditional Catholic is one who really does embrace the way the church practiced the faith before Vatican ii, much more than trying to make it a modern thing. [00:03:44] There's a lot of issues with that definition. I get it. But that is what I'm talking about today when I'm talking about traditional Catholics. Now I go to the traditional Latin Mass. I would consider myself a traditional Catholic. People call me traditional Catholic, although a lot of traditional Catholics call me semi trad, meaning I'm not really. I'm just a fake traditional Catholic. And so, I don't know, you call me whatever you want to. I definitely, probably, if you look at the spectrum, I'm more on the. The trad, slash conservative Catholic view, whatever you want to call it. But I just wanted to kind of clear that up so we didn't have any confusion. [00:04:20] So generally how half traditional Catholics respond. Now, if you watch my last podcast, which I did with Kennedy hall and Timothy Flanders right after the election of Pope Leo xiv, both of those are traditional Catholics. [00:04:33] Both Timothy and Kennedy are. We obviously didn't have a lot of information to go on at that time, but all three of us were simply saying, we're going to reserve judgment, we're hopeful, we're going to pray for the Pope. [00:04:45] We don't have any reason to think, like, all of a sudden, now this is a disaster or anything like that. We're going to wait and see, but we're going to be optimistic and hopeful about his pontificate. And in fact, the little bit we didn't know at the time, which was only him walking out in the Loggia, was that, hey, there's already some decent signs that he's not just going to fall in lockstep with Francis, obviously, what he wore, the papal blessing, apostolic blessing in Latin, things of that nature. [00:05:11] And since then, there have been more things that have happened that indicate, at the very least, he is intentionally not following directly in the footsteps of Francis by a lot of the little things he does, a lot of the symbolic things he does. One great example was when he met with journalists. [00:05:30] Pope Leo gave them an apostolic blessing in Latin. That's a big deal because Francis didn't even give them a blessing. He simply said, I know not all of you are Catholic and so I'm just going to silently pray for you. And something of that nature, which was really a huge red flag. It was a huge red flag because it was. It's kind of a ghetto mentality that a lot of the old time Catholics had of, like, you didn't want to be too Catholic. [00:05:58] Well, Leo had no part in that. And he's done a lot of little things like that. Right. Obviously, he hasn't made any big decisions. He hasn't made any major statements. Right. Released any encyclicals or anything like that. He's simply done a few little things that show. At the very least, he seems to have no feeling of like, okay, I have to do the way Francis did it. [00:06:20] So that obviously is a good thing. So there's good signs. [00:06:23] But in general, what I've seen online and from talking to friends is that most traditionalists have received Pope Leo with cautious optimism. I think that's probably the best way to put it. Cautious optimism. I know there are some who have already gone against him, attacked him, said he's basically a soupage clone, that he's. That he's just going to be just like Francis, things like that. But really that's a minority opinion. A very small minority opinion. If you look at the biggest voices, the ones who have the biggest followings of traditional Catholics, they're all saying, hey, let's wait and see signs are hopeful, let's hope for the best, let's pray for him, things like that. [00:07:04] I've noticed, though, that some non traditional Catholics have not. [00:07:10] That's not enough for them. They've basically said, no, even having cautious optimism is enough. We have to be complete fanboys from day one. [00:07:20] And whereas I have even I have cautious optimism. I'm very hopeful for Pope, Pope Leo. I already see a lot of good signs. [00:07:29] I do understand why there are many that are maybe emphasizing the cautious part more than the optimist part. [00:07:36] So if traditionalists are cautiously optimistic, some are more leaning towards the optimism side, that'd be me. [00:07:43] Some are leaning more towards the cautious side. I get that. [00:07:47] I put on X. I said the hesitation to give Pope Leo XIV the benefit of the doubt as he begins his pontificate demonstrates how deeply Pope Francis has harmed the faithful. [00:08:02] And what do I mean by that? Simply put, we've had 12 years of a Pope, if you're speaking as a traditional Catholic of a pope who has done everything he can to demean and attack you. [00:08:15] And here's the thing. [00:08:17] There's nothing wrong with a spiritual father criticizing somebody under him. In fact, that's needed, that's required. [00:08:24] We recently, I might have mentioned this in the podcast, Ray. Recently, one of our priests at our parish, he had a very harsh homily against, I won't give the details, but against something that traditional Catholics were doing, and it was needed, and I felt it. And I thought, this is exactly we need to hear criticism. So I'm not saying that what we felt, however, from Pope Francis was a visceral hatred for the traditions that we cling to. And here's the thing. It's not like we cling to heretical traditions. We're simply saying we want to live as Catholics have lived for hundreds of years. That shouldn't be something a Pope is opposed to. That shouldn't be something a Pope tries to stop. [00:09:08] But yet that's exactly what was happening. [00:09:11] And so I don't think people who weren't the target of those attacks realize how personally hurt traditional Catholics were. Most traditional Catholics might not even admit it, might not even want to say that, because it sounds like, you know, psychobabble language. It sounds like you're a snowflake and things like that. But the fact is we have feelings, we have emotions. We can be hurt, especially when our father insults us or does something to attack us. [00:09:39] I don't know, a human being alive who's, who's not a psychopath, who wouldn't feel hurt if his father attacked him. [00:09:45] And so, yes, Catholics, traditional Catholics in particular, were hurt. They were emotionally damaged. I mean, I know I'm using psychobible language, but it's true. [00:09:55] They felt like their father did not love them. [00:09:58] And there's, you know, I'm not going to recount all the examples, all the cases where this happened. We just know it happens so often. [00:10:06] And so the fact is, is that when all of a sudden a new man walks out there, it's hard not to be like, well, is this going to be the new boss, same as the old boss? Particularly because it seems that Pope Leo at least aligns with Pope Francis on many major issues, for example, synodality. [00:10:25] And so it's like, oh, is this going to be some. Some more of the same? Is this really going to be any different. [00:10:32] I get that you'd be cautiously. Why you emphasize the cautious part of cautiously optimistic. Even if you're trying, if you're praying, saying, lord, help me to receive my new Holy Father. [00:10:45] I get it, I get it. And I'm not saying I'm not part of that. I don't feel it quite as much, but I get why people did. [00:10:55] However, I do think that there is a real danger here for traditionalists, that because of the way we were treated by Pope Francis, we, we don't allow Pope Leo to be our Holy Father, to be the pope. We don't allow him a chance to lead the church as he is called by Christ to lead it. I thought there was an excellent post I'll put up here on the screen. Hopefully you can actually see it. If not, I'll read it. [00:11:21] You know, for those, if you can't even see it on there, if it's too small. [00:11:25] But, but essentially what we see here is. This is from Peter Kwasnski, friend of the program Peter Kwasnski. He's obviously been on here a number of times. And essentially what we see here is. [00:11:36] Can I zoom this in? Well, anyway, Peter Koznickski posted. He said, I see a lot of panic and pessimism about Leo XIV out there among traditionalists because of his continuity of mind with Francis. [00:11:48] I think this reaction is a mistake for a few simple reasons. [00:11:53] Number one, we were never likely to get pope who was not in many respects in continuity with Francis. In the Vatican II mindset, yes, we might have dreamt of a serrah erdo or pizzabala, but whatever you think about it, when you think about the progressives had the majority all along, even a conservative would have to pay lip service to his predecessor and to the last council. It's just the way things are. [00:12:14] Number two, we are never very likely to escape a boomer pope. [00:12:19] However, there's a huge difference between someone born in 1936 and someone born in 1955. And then Peter goes on to explain how Bergoglio came to age during the Vatican II ecstasy time, whereas Prevost, you know, Pope Leo was only 10 years old when Vatican II ended, so he's not going to have the same emotional codependency on Vatican II that Francis did. [00:12:43] Number three, and this is, I think, an important point, a difference in personality and approach can make a huge difference on the ground. [00:12:51] There are innumerable indications that Prevost is vastly different personality than Bergoglio, all in positive ways, and that he does not want to go around making enemies and shooting people down. [00:13:03] If we could even get some breathing room for a few years, that would be a win at this stage. Moreover, there's no doubt that one reason an American was elected was to clean up the Vatican financial disaster. [00:13:13] Surely an American can raise money and fix problems. But to do this well, you have to stop waging war on conservatives and traditionalists who have at least some sway over public perception and therefore the flow of donations. A man who's trying to fix a broken institution is more likely to exercise discretion and welcome different parties to the table. [00:13:31] Number four, we owe it to any man, high office to pray for him, to give him a chance to lead in the office, to let him make some mistakes, as any fallen human being will do, and to refrain from premature condemnation. This is not naivety or wishful thinking. It's a matter of justice and charity that we owe to our fathers at all levels. In the family, in the parish, in the diocese, in the universal church. [00:13:52] He goes on, and then he does say, where is it? He says this. [00:13:58] He said, don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying we should not call it evils when we must, but must we do that 24 7? Can we not exercise some self restraint and pray a rosary instead of firing off the latest barrage? Might we even consider ignoring the Pope for long stretches of time so we don't fall into a subtle papalatry that makes him the be all and end all of Catholicism? [00:14:18] And so basically Peter is saying that. Peter Kozniewski is saying, let's give Leo the benefit of the doubt. Let's not be quick to judge and condemn him for mistakes. We should give him that benefit. We should give all of our fathers so. But the question is, what does it actually mean to give him the benefit of the doubt? We talk about this a lot. I mentioned, I wrote an article two years ago where I said, I no longer give Francis the benefit of the doubt, but I am going to give Leo the benefit of doubt. And just to be clear, I gave Francis the benefit of doubt for many, many years. The beginning of his pontificate. [00:14:55] What it means is, first of all, we assume the best interpretation of his words and actions. Because we don't know him that well. We can't assume the worst. Like the problem with Francis was, by the end we knew what he meant. It was very clear by his actions and words over the years. When he said something, we could interpret it realistically in his mind, even if the interpretation made him look bad and was bad. We knew that was probably the real one because it was consistent with his actions and words in the past. We don't have that with Prevost, with Pope Leo. So we give the best interpretation of his words and actions until we have a strong reason not to. The best meaning the most charitable interpretation. [00:15:37] Also, I think it means we understand that, simply put, there was no chance we get uber trad elected as Pope. It just wasn't going to happen. Peter mentions that, and I think it's an important point to remember. [00:15:51] Nobody is saying that Pope Leo is some, you know, SSPX bishop all of a sudden come to life, you know, Lefebvre or something like that. [00:16:01] All we're simply saying is that he needs to be given a chance. We can't assume the sins of Francis and put them on Leo. That's probably the best way to put it. We can't take the sins of Francis and put them on Leo. We have to allow Pope Leo to be the Pope, to practice his ministry and to be, you know, and to allow him to be the successor of St Peter without putting all the baggage of Pope Francis. [00:16:27] Ultimately, it means we're not the judges of the Pope. [00:16:32] We're not the judges of the Pope. Now, the first thing I'm sure some people will say when they hear that is, well, wait a minute. [00:16:38] Weren't you, Eric, criticizing Francis all the time? Weren't you judging Francis all the time? Aren't you you uber trads? Are you trads? Aren't you always judging Francis? What do you mean you can't judge the Pope? [00:16:51] What I mean by that is simply when we criticize Francis, hopefully I'm not saying we're always great, but as I personally have already admitted at times, I'm sure I did judge Pope Francis in an uncharitable way. [00:17:05] What I mean by that is if the Pope contradicts the deposit of faith, if he scandalizes the faithful in a public way, then we have a right and a duty in some cases to actually criticize him for that, to publicly criticize him for that. That's not putting ourselves up as a judge above him. [00:17:24] It's not saying, okay, I'm going to look into his heart and see why he did that. Now, in fact, I saw people do that sometimes and I thought that was wrong. [00:17:31] What it means simply is he said X, but that is not consistent with the teachings Catholic Church or he did X, he did Y. And that scandalized people to think that something contrary to the Catholic faith, that was the most main thing he would do is he would do or say something that led the average person to believe something that was contrary to the Catholic faith. His embrace of homosexual, you know, people was one great example of that, where he made it seem like he, he did not think homosexuality was a sin. [00:18:04] And so when public scandal is given, it is right. And just to clarify and correct that, that's not the ideal situation. I'm not saying we should have to do that. Laypeople shouldn't have to criticize the Pope for God's. [00:18:18] That's the job of cardinals, bishops, priests, particularly cardinals that they privately criticize him, work with him. But the fact is, is that very, very, very few cardinals, bishops or priests actually spoke out against the errors of Pope Francis and the scandals of Pope Francis and the corruption of Pope Francis. And because of that, lay people like myself felt like, okay, somebody has to say something. [00:18:46] It has to be on record somewhere. It has to be clarified for people that, no, this is not right. And so when I say we're not judging the Pope, I'm not saying we can't say when a pope is wrong about something. I'm simply saying that we're not judging their intentions or why they do something. Like, I didn't like the people who always called him a Peronus Pope. And he's just doing this for. He wanted to destroy the Church and stuff like that. [00:19:09] I think that's judging him. That's for God to decide. I'm simply saying you look at the actions and words and you say, okay, is this consistent with the Catholic faith or not? [00:19:18] Simply put, that's the easiest way around that. [00:19:22] But like Peter said, that doesn't mean we have to criticize every single thing Pope Leo does going forward. Oh, look, he appointed that bishop. And I know that bishop's not. He wasn't a very good priest. He's appointing him a bishop. Oh, he made this bishop cardinal. That guy's a terrible cardinal. He's a terrible bishop. He shouldn't be made cardinal. Oh, he didn't make that bishop cardinal. And he's a good orthodox guy. Oh, or whatever. Or he wrote this encyclical and look at this paragraph. It says this. That clearly supports synodality or whatever. [00:19:52] There's no need for that. There's just simply no need. We are in the situation. We are in the church. It's not going to reverse itself overnight. And just simply criticizing him, every single thing he does does nothing to help that situation. [00:20:07] Like I said, I'm not saying we cannot say when he does something wrong. Or if it's, if it's a real scandal, if it's a real issue. I'm not saying we should not speak out at times. I'm not saying we have to, but I'm saying it's not that we can't, but we just have to recognize there is a, there is a downside. There is a spiritual downside to nitpicking the Pope and making it, because that does kind of make you, you a judge over him if you're saying every single thing he does is wrong. Like, I actually tried during Pope Francis's pontificate to say when he did something right. Like, I always praised him for his work for peace, that he really tried to not take sides and really advocate for peace. I always thought that was a very good aspect of his pontificate. And so. But the point is, let's not be nitpickers of Pope Leo. [00:20:58] The fact is, is that the last 12 years under Pope Francis, there was a lot of danger. There were spiritual dangers involved that weren't always clear to us. There's the obvious spiritual dangers that he is exalting things that are contrary to the gospel people or teachings or whatever. [00:21:15] That's the obvious one. But I think it's a. There's a real danger for orthodox Catholics, traditional, conservative, whatever you want to call it, orthodox faithful Catholics. The danger is, is that the constant need to correct Francis because he was constantly wrong, was that we put ourselves above the papacy. We put ourselves above the pope. Now, I'm not hyper papalist, and I'm going to talk about that in here in a minute, but I am also saying that we're not above the Pope. We're not, we're not supposed to be making a, you know, we're not supposed to degrade the papacy such that it has no meaning whatsoever. [00:21:52] But I think that's what's happened in some corners. I think the reaction by some corners, fortunately, a small segment of traditional Catholics has been very much disrespectful of the papacy because here we have a new man in the papacy, in the punt, you know, starting his pontificate. He's done literally nothing as a pope, but yet we're already writing him off and condemning him and saying, okay, he's going to be terrible. I just think that is a disrespect to the papacy. It's not. It's not. It's not charitable. It's not the way things should be. That's. This is why, by the way, scandal is so bad. It's not just simply that you're scandalizing. You know, the person doing the scandalizing has a problem. It's that the people scandalized are led into sin. [00:22:34] And that's the danger for us who were scandalized by Pope Francis. And by the way, if you weren't scandalized by Pope Francis, I don't think you're really a practicing Catholic because you should have been scandalized by the pontificate of Pope Francis. [00:22:47] But the problem is being scandalized is an excuse for then falling into your own sins, your sin, and particularly the sin of cynicism, of really just having this deep cynicism that honestly is despair. That's what the real sin is. It's despair. [00:23:05] What I mean by that is you simply just assume everything is going to be bad, everything is going to go wrong in the Church. Every pope, every bishop, every priest is against you, is against the Catholic faith. They're just a heretic, whatever, Vatican II stooge, whatever. [00:23:22] That's a real despair because you're not willing to be open to the fact that God can move and he might not move exactly the way you intended. I'm sure there is not one single traditional Catholic who was rooting for Robert Prevost to become pope. Not a single one. [00:23:39] However, that doesn't mean God can't use Robert Prevost as a pope. That really does a lot for the traditional Catholic movement, does a lot of good for the church. [00:23:51] Cynicism, despair would say, nope, it's just not possible. [00:23:55] It's not possible. Look, he said this pro synodality. Look, he worked for bishop for Pope Francis. He was a prefect for bishops, and look at the terrible bishops they appointed while he was prefect. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. [00:24:09] That is really just despair. And citizen. I also think there's a certain aspect of it in which we say to ourselves, if I say things are bad, then when something bad does happen, I can sit back and say, see, I told you so. I wasn't fooled like you rubes. I knew it was all big, you know, joke, that soup itch and Father Martin and all of them were all planning this from the day, from the beginning, I knew this was going to be a disaster and you idiots didn't know it like I did. [00:24:38] But I would rather, I would much rather be optimistic and be burned later than to be cynical all the time and not recognize when God was moving. [00:24:52] I would rather be optimistic and be burned than to be cynical and just not see it. When God works, it's the same thing. Like for human relationships, there are Some people who don't want to fall in love with because they're afraid of the hurt they will get if one day that person betrays them. [00:25:10] But it's better to fall in love and be betrayed than never to fall in love. Now, I'm not saying it's the exact same thing with a new Pope, but I mean, the analogy is simply that I would rather be hopeful, I would rather be looking for the best and hoping for the best with a new Pope, and then maybe one day find out that I was wrong than to be like, oh, this guy's going to be disaster. I just know it. I just know it and just sit and stew in my. My cynicism and my despair. [00:25:40] Because if he is. If you are right and he is awful, well, big whoop, you're not helped. You didn't help any. And if. But if you're wrong and he does do good things, you can't even see it because you're so sure of yourself that God can't work miracles, that God cannot work for good in the church. [00:25:58] And so I would just challenge my fellow traditional Catholics, whether you consider me a fellow traditional Catholic or not, consider me a semi traitor, whatever you consider me, I would just really challenge you, be hopeful, have the virtue of hope that God can work. We don't know what the Leo pontificate is going to be like. We have some good indications at the beginning, but it's only been a few days. We don't know what's going to happen, but we can trust that God will take care of us, that God is working, that all our prayers are being heard. Whether they're answered in the way we think they should be answered is another story. But they are being heard, and so we should be hopeful for that. [00:26:36] Now, one other thing I do want to say about Pope Leo, and this is I am still concerned about hyper papalism. I beat this drum for years under Francis because I saw the dangers of hyperpopilism, meaning you exalt the papacy and the Pope above really his, what his office is called to be the celebrity pope syndrome as well, the celebrity papacy, that all of a sudden, you know, we treat him like, like people treat celebrities. And every word he says, where we just can't wait to hear, and like anything he says, we have to agree with you, have to celebrate. You know, if he looks at somebody a certain way, oh, my gosh, that's the greatest thing ever. I'm not saying we can't be happy, that we can't. Like, for example, I Love the fact that the new Pope was a baseball fan. I just, I know that's a little bit of celebrity Pope. I'm, I'm, I'm admitting my fault here maybe, but I love the fact as a huge baseball fan, the fact that the Pope is a baseball fan, I don't know, just fills me with a certain amount of joy. It just makes me happy. My whole family is baseball fans. We've been texting a lot in the family chat about the Pope being a baseball fan and how much we're enjoying that. [00:27:43] But I am concerned about hyper papalism. I think it's a real scourge in the Church over the past hundred years. We saw it under JP2, I practice it under JP2. We saw it under Pope Benedict. I practice it under Pope Benedict. We saw under Pope Francis. I didn't practice it then, but I told myself, no matter who the next Pope is, don't fall into hyper papalism. Meaning we don't like, act like every word coming from the Pope is the infallible word of God. Because it's not. That's not our teaching. That doesn't mean we can't praise Leo. We can't praise him if he does something good. When he says something that encourages the faithful, when he acts as a good father that we encourage that we're like, yes, we're very thankful for that, that we even use him in some of our discussions with other Catholics or non Catholics in defending the faith if he says something good. I'm not saying you can't do that. [00:28:34] I'm simply saying is we recognize what the role he has, we put him in the context of 2000 years of scripture and tradition. One of the big things that annoys me is how modern day Popes, they only self reference themselves in Vatican 2. And a lot of Catholics follow that lead. [00:28:52] Everything is, Pope Francis said this, Pope Francis that, Vatican II said this, Vatican II said that. And they won't reference anything from before 1962. [00:29:00] And I think that's a very poor way of looking at the tradition. We need to look at the fullness of tradition. So again, it's okay to praise Pope Leo. I'm not claiming it's not. What I am saying is let's not fall into hyper papalism. Let's not make him a cult leader, but instead look to him as our spiritual father. Everybody knows their fathers have faults. There's nothing wrong with praising your father when he does something good. But we all know once you get old enough that your father has faults and Pope Leo has them as well, so let's, you know, accept that and not exalt him above his actual office in the church. [00:29:39] And lastly, we don't have to agree with everything Pope Leo does. I guarantee I will not. I'm sure I will not. I'm sure you won't either. His views on politics, on economics, on social justice, on the environment, on synodality, on whatever the case may be. [00:29:56] We don't have to agree with him on everything. That's not church teaching. I do think we should listen to him. Honestly. I think we should have listened to Pope Francis for many years before finally his words became ones that we just couldn't listen to anymore. I'm sorry to say that it actually pains me to say that, that by the end years of Francis's papacy, we really just couldn't listen to him anymore because he had just built up too much ill will. He had said too many things that were harmful to the faithful that you just had to shut your ears. It just was the way it was. I think we do need to listen to Pope Leo as our spiritual father, be willing to be challenged by him. He may say some things we don't like, but we actually should hear. [00:30:39] He may say some things we don't like. That really, they're just kind of his personal opinion and that's okay, too. We can just say, okay, that's your opinion. I appreciate you giving it, but I'm gonna. I'm not going to agree with it, but there might be times that he might challenge us. And I think we should not just immediately say, oh, no, no, I'm not going to listen to that. Because that was our instinct under Francis. Let's not carry over that, that negative, that, that, that urge to kind of close our ears instinct onto Pope Leo. I don't think that's fair to him. It's not fair to us as Catholics. [00:31:11] Okay. Well, the live chat was. Was hopping today. I appreciate that. Lots of comments. A lot. A whole bunch of comments. I'm gonna, I'm gonna put a few here up on the screen and address him. Juan Cristobal Rojas says, I feel dangerously optimistic. I like that. I feel dangerously optimistic. I like that. Because I think he means the same thing I was saying is I know this could hurt me. I know this could pain me later if I'm wrong, but let's do it. I hope he governs a church like Trump. I thought Trump was a liberal with a very bad past, and it turns out he's the most conservative president of The US Ever. [00:31:45] I don't know about ever because I'm sure some 19th century president was more conservative. But I know what you're saying. I get your point that I too was not a fan of Trump, thought he was a liberal and was proven wrong. And so let's hope that same thing for, for Prevost. [00:32:00] I'm not sure I pronounce your name Dagu down. Well, he addressed a Dubia for a Morris. You know, I wanted to ask a canon lawyer about that. Does he have any obligation to answer that? Because with the death of Pope Francis, do those Dubia just kind of go by the wayside and should the, the cardinals resubmit them? I don't know the answer to that. I would hope that he would in some way address the issues that, that the Dubia brought up, that he would make it more clear what the church's teaching was on those issues. [00:32:29] Also, he said, what will Leo XIV do about the material heresy of the Abu Dhabi document 2019? I don't know. But this brings up a good point. What should we expect of Leo when it comes to addressing the errors of Pope Francis's pontificate, the problems, the scandals and whatnot? I think we should be patient. First of all, I don't think he's going to all of a sudden release a document next week that just kind of details everything Francis did wrong and why, you know, and that it' null and void or whatever the case may be. I just don't think that's realistic. I think all the way from what he said and the fact that he was a Francis appointee, he's not going to do that. [00:33:06] What my guess is most likely thing is the kind of the best case scenario, realistic scenario is he will simply move on from it. He will simply say things that undercut and undermine errors that Francis made. He will just simply move on and not really explicitly condemn Francis as much as just simply not support the things he did wrong. That's kind of what he's doing already. We've seen that with you know, he's going, he's moving into the Apostolic Palace. He wore the, the I can't remember the name of the papal garment when he first came out on the on logio. By the way, speaking of that, I'll show this on the screen for those watching. I already have a prayer card of Pope Leo the 14th. I got this from a friend of mine. He runs catholic to the max.com I think that's where you can get them catholic the max.com it's got a beautiful prayer on the back for Leo XIV and it's a very nice prayer. Catholic to the max.com is I think where you get these. But you see here in his papal garments at the on the Loggia. I got this literally the day after on Friday, the day after he was elected. [00:34:11] But the point is, is that he's already done these little things where he doesn't condemn Francis. He simply contradicts in his actions what Francis did. And I think that's what, what we'll probably see going forward. [00:34:23] Okay, John says as someone who is currently studying math in college, I was pleasantly surprised. See Pope Leo has a background in mathematics. Math is the language of God also. Thanks for all you do at crisis. Eric John Amen brother. I am a math geek. I am very happy to see that we have another math geek and I say that in the best possible way following this program. [00:34:43] Good luck in your studies in math. I think math is God's subject. [00:34:47] My sister was actually a. Had got a degree in mathematics, is a math teacher. [00:34:52] She went more into math even than I did. But I do think mathematics is the language of God when you properly understand. And the fact that Leo, Pope Leo is has a background mathematics does give me a lot of hope especially because I want to talk about this a lot more in the future. I have an article coming out tomorrow about this artificial intelligence. He brought this up when he said why he was taking the name Leo. [00:35:14] And I think that somebody with a mathematics background is going to understand artificial intelligence much better than. I mean I don't. This actually isn't meant as any type of insult against Pope Francis. But honestly an 88 year old man probably isn't going to be able understand artificial intelligence very well. A 69 year old man may not. But if you've got background mathematics, I think he's got a better chance of understanding artificial intelligence. And it's good and it's bad. So I'm hopeful for that. [00:35:41] Okay, James Coffee says I am Leo Pilled. Okay. Okay. James, I'm glad you are. I hope that, that you will be rewarded for your, your pilling of Leo as they say. [00:35:52] Okay Patrick, after 12 years of Francis, his natural be skeptical about a new Pope. Prayers for Pope Leo xiv. Absolutely, totally understand that and I, I totally, I do not condemn anybody who is skeptical. I understand. I just would urge you not to let that skepticism turn into cynicism or despair. I think that's really the line we draw. It's okay to be skeptical because of the history, but Just don't go all the way into cynicism and despair. I think that's what I'd urge. [00:36:21] Gracio Bunny says I remain cautiously optimistic, leaning more towards optimistic daily. It's hard to completely let the guard down. I'm determined to pray much for Leo. I think we'll be just fine. I do too. I do, too, Gracie. And the fact that you're praying so much for Leo is part of the reason why I'm cautiously optimistic because I think a lot of people are praying for him. We're desperate for a good, solid holy Pope, and we really need one. And so all our prayers, I think, you know, I don't think God hears him is, I guess, the way I'll put it, God hears him. [00:36:52] Okay. John also says if Gordon loses hold over parish radicals and retrogrades, he's dead in the water. A somewhat middle of the road pope kind of kills Garden's audience segment. Gordon. I honestly don't watch Tim Gordon. I assume that's what you're talking about. Timothy Gordon. I don't follow him, so I don't really know what he's saying, you know, so I'll just kind of take your word for it. What. Whatever that might be. [00:37:14] Okay. T.K. o' Rourke says, I don't think it's surprising people felt the last pope didn't like them, would have that reaction. But then calm down after reflection. Yes. That's another thing I want to say. I'm glad you brought this up, TK I get if people in the day of his. His election looked him up, saw that he was in line with Francis and immediately black pilled, immediately said, oh, crap, we got ourselves another one. We got Francis 2.0. [00:37:38] I get that. It's human. It's our emotions. I understand. [00:37:43] But I've also noticed even some of those people have now said, okay, hold on, let's give this guy a chance. And I think that's the right thing to do. So. So, yeah, it's understandable. [00:37:53] TKL says, smash that like button. Amen. Thank you, TK Smash that like button. Absolutely, I do. Cashin says, if you don't consider the power of God's grace, it's easy to be cynical. Yeah. And that. That's exactly my point, is that cynicism is a sin because it is despair. It's not recognizing God can do anything. That God's grace. I'm not saying we. We turn off our minds and we ignore reality. [00:38:20] That would be like the people who are saying at the end of Francis Pontificate, everything was still great. Everything was doing awesome. I'm not saying that, but we recognize God can work, that God does work and he will work in this pontificate. [00:38:34] Okay, last comment. Theodore Sieber says my nephew is a seminarian at St. Angel, Oregon. If his buddies are any indication, he brought several of them to a holiday dinner. The future of the priest in the archdiocese is ad orientum. You know, it's interesting because that's not the only diocese that's happening. There's a lot of. [00:38:51] There's definitely many people who, priests, young priests who. They would celebrate ad orientum right now if their bishop allowed it. And they want to celebrate ad orientum because they recognize that's the proper orientation we should have during the liturgy. Everybody facing towards God. That's the way it should be done. That, that, that's shouldn't even be controversial to say that. That's so obvious. Now, I know we had a silly season for decades where they suppress that knowledge, but now I think a lot of young priests are recognizing that. And that's the thing that recognize also with, like Leo, he became a priest under JP2. [00:39:27] So his biggest image of a papacy is going to be John Paul ii. So he very well might subconsciously at least model his papacy after John Paul ii, which is obviously a big improvement over Francis. But as more and more priests get ordained who are, are younger and you know, as they become bishops, they're going the things like adorantum, you know, are just going to become more like, well, of course we should do it like that. It was kind of silly not to do it like that. So I think there's, there's a lot of hope for the future of the church. It might take a long time. I'm not saying it's gonna happen overnight. I don't think tomorrow, all of a sudden Father James Martin gets excommunicated and, you know, everything gets. Goes hunky dory. [00:40:06] I just think over time the direction is clear that truth and tradition will win out in the end. Okay, that's it for now. I just want to encourage everybody. Pray for Pope Leo xiv. Pray for him that he would be a good and holy Pope. Pray for him that he will get attacked from all sides. Pray for him to have strength. There's a lot of corruption in the Vatican. Pray that he can resist that, that he can overcome it, that he can deal with it and defeat it. [00:40:34] A lot of things to pray for. So definitely continue to do that. Also lastly, if you're still here, that means you are a fan of the program, please consider donating to Crisis magazine. Go to crisismagazine.com click on the donate button and consider giving a one time, but especially a monthly gift. Thank you very much, everybody. Until next time. God love you.