The Age of Apocalypse (Guest: Joshua Charles)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign Joshua, welcome to the program. [00:00:12] Speaker B: Thank you, Eric. It's been a while. [00:00:14] Speaker A: Yes, it's been too long. I, I really. [00:00:16] Speaker B: Six years in, so I'm an Uber expert now. [00:00:18] Speaker A: That's right. [00:00:18] Speaker B: Exactly. Last time I was five years in, you were. [00:00:21] Speaker A: Barely made my cut. I mean. [00:00:22] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:00:24] Speaker A: I think I should have deleted if you were, like, a day short of five years as a convert. So. Yeah, no, it was. We had a great discussion. Last I remember, I broke it up into two, and I don't do that anymore because we went so long. But I, I, it was, it was. It was a great discussion. In fact, I'll probably make sure I link to it at the end of this one just so people can talk about that. [00:00:42] Speaker B: But, yeah, I apologize for being so interesting. I'm totally kidding. [00:00:49] Speaker A: You are? But, yeah, that's hilarious. I'm totally trying to be a little more boring this time. Okay. Yeah, I'll cut you off a lot. So what we want to talk about today is the Apocalypse. And this kind of came up because you and I had a little bit of interaction online. I wrote something, I think it was back in April. I wrote something on accident, on crisis, about my concerns about people kind of chasing the Apocalypse, chasing the end times, thinking we're in the worst times, we're at the end of the world, and you push back a little bit. And I appreciated that because I think it's an important topic. I have a natural. I think it's just my personality. I have a natural instinct against sensationalism, against, like, okay, this is the worst time ever. We had the worst Pope ever. Like, I always pushed against that with Pope Francis. People say, oh, he's the worst Pope ever. I'm like, well, I think you need to read a little more. And. And we don't really know that, but anyway, the point is, though, it's an important topic because obviously our Lord talks about it, the church fathers talk about, the Church talks about it. So it's not something some people kind of punt on the whole thing. But, I mean, if our Lord talked about it and the church fathers talked about it, it's got to be somewhat important. [00:01:59] Speaker B: So, sure. [00:02:00] Speaker A: Why don't we just start and kind of. Why don't you break down the basics of what the Church teaches about the end times, about the coming of the Antichrist or antichrists, More than one. And. And, like, what Christ said and what the church fathers talked about. [00:02:17] Speaker B: Just that. [00:02:19] Speaker A: Do it within 30 seconds, please. [00:02:21] Speaker B: Well, yeah, no. Well, the first thing I'd say is I agree with a lot of your concerns about sensationalism and whatnot. I don't agree with everything you said, but we can talk about that. I suspect there'd be more agreement than maybe you think. And I'd also say, you know, as a Protestant, you know, I came into the church from Protestantism. I was not one of those end times obsessed Protestants. I actually despise that kind of stuff. And I, I admit it, you read Left Behind. [00:02:48] Speaker A: Admit it, you read. [00:02:49] Speaker B: No, I did and I found it entertaining, but that was as far as it went for me. I didn't like get into it. [00:02:54] Speaker A: I didn't see. [00:02:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I read it obviously behind every headline, you know. Yeah, but, but I coined a term for it actually. Apocalyptomania. So that is my term. I did come up with it on my own. So I, I believe that stuff is real. But I, I will say just as a general comment for me, the things we're, we'll talk about a little bit have actually brought great peace. I'm, I'm a history guy. So, you know, my apostle, eternal Christendom, like in the logo is built a story. We've got the cross in the middle and the sort of clover sort of thing representing the Trinity. On top is the Ten Commandments representing the Jews and revealed religion. On the right side, I know it's reversed on these cameras, but on the right side is the Parthenon representing Greece and reason and philosophy. On the left is the Coliseum representing Rome, obviously law, civilization, institutions, etc, and how in the fullness of time, you know, God assumed human nature and united the highest aspirations really of all three in, in the church. And this is something that you have multiple church fathers talking about like St. Cyril of Alexandria, St. Augustine, they both have basically the exact same commentary on the fact that above our Lord's head on the cross was Hebrew, Greek and Latin. And they said this indicates he was the, the master of divinely revealed religion, of reason and speculative philosophy and practical philosophy, you know, of, of the arts of civilization, so to speak. So, so the reason I say that is because I'm very, I've been great peace in the right narrative, if we understand history in the broad scope that personally gives me peace. And so that's, I'm a little bit strange in that regard perhaps, but I have actually seen, as I've talked about this topic, excuse me, I got a little bit in my throat with various friends and family over the years. I have seen when, when we talk about the way I talk about it, I'm not trying to describe it too much to me. I think it's just the truce I found from many saints and Fathers. It actually, I've seen it bring a lot of peace to people. So I agree with you to the extent somebody's passions are getting worked up. They need to stop, like just stop. But. But I do believe that if we're in that sort of a time, the proper spot response is something like, of course, our lady and St. John, who, you know, St. John was the only apostle who didn't flee our Lord during the Passion. He didn't outright betray him like Judas. He didn't deny him like Peter. The others fled, but he didn't flee. And he knew what was coming and he really didn't say anything and he didn't try to prevent it. So I think there's this sort of quiet calm that we can and should have when we're contemplating these things. So as far as the Apocalypse, well, something that many Catholics are not aware of is Session four of the Council of Trent, which of course Trent was convened in response to Protestantisms. I like to say tisms because there was no Protestantism. A singular thing. It was multiple fragmentary things. And I actually visited Trent last year, visited the cathedral where all this happened. It was really quite amazing. It was like going. It's a very idyllic little town in the Brenner Pass between Italy and Austria, and gorgeous. Like being in Middle Earth, you know, it's like a fairy tale. But. But as a ex Protestant, it was, it was quite surreal for me to be there. But Session four of the Council of Trent basically says that the unanimous consensus of the Fathers is binding. So if there is an item of faith, most Catholics aren't aware of this. And this is actually part of the Creed of Pius IV that was issued I think in 1565 somewhere around there. And it's the last infallibly promulgated Creed of the Church, as far as I'm aware. Well, it may have been updated a little bit in the, in the eight. It's been updated a little bit like with, you know, Vatican one and whatnot, but essentially the Creed of Pius iv and it refers to this language from Session four of the Council of Trent about the consensus of the Fathers being binding. So if the Fathers are unanimous on something, we as Catholics are required to believe it. Now, some people may say, well, I'm a Catholic and I don't know. Well, this is the habit of faith. The, the gift of faith is about the disposition to believe what the Church believes so that you don't maybe have a data point in your mind isn't the issue. It's, it's will you believe if that you realize this is what the Church teaches. So when it comes to the Apocalypse, there's a lot of, there's a lot of room for speculation, obviously. And my views on this are in many ways the result of synthesizing many, many different voices. In a way I think is, is reasonable and, you know, frankly, really drawing from far greater minds, obviously, St. Thomas Aquinas and whatnot. And so I'll say one thing that. Well, let me read if I could, the opening a part of the Roman Catechism, which was issued by the Council of Trent. I made sure my iPad was available beforehand. It says, this is part one, Article seven, Circumstances of the judgment, referring to the final judgment, says, the sacred Scriptures inform us that the general judgment will be preceded by three principal signs. The preaching of the Gospel throughout the world, a falling away from the faith, and the coming of Antichrist. This Gospel of the kingdom says, our Lord shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony to all nations, and then shall the consummation come. That's Matthew 24:14. The apostle also admonishes us that we are we be not seduced by anyone. And as if the day of the Lord were at hand. For unless there come a revolt first and the man of sin be revealed that second, Thessalonians 2, 3, the judgment will not come. So if I start from the catechism, the Roman Catechism as a starting point, I think the first sign, the gospel going to the ends of the earth, has happened. I think we can fairly definitively say that. So we're in a different place now than even during the 16th century, because at that point, you know, the new world had just been discovered, a whole new universe really was open to, to the Church. Then the question becomes, well, the third sign has not happened. Antichrist has not come, or at least not. [00:09:04] Speaker A: Let me just quickly go back to the first sign, because I think some people might. You don't want to get on signs like this. I would argue, and I think you tell me if you agree or not, that we're not looking especially for this first sign. It's not a mathematical equation. It's not that every single person who's alive today has heard the actual Gospel preached to them. I'm sure there are people in some far off place in South America or Africa something have not heard of Jesus. But I think it's more of a General thing, that basically there's nowhere on Earth, no continent, no real country that hasn't at least had some effort to preach the gospel, even in a predominantly Muslim country like Saudi Arabia, stuff like that. They know about Christianity, know about Catholicism, and there have been people who have gone there. So I just want to make sure that's clear that we're not being. We don't want to be too. Like, when it comes to signs like this, we don't want to be too, you know, persnickety about, like, exactly what qualifies. But I would agree with you, by the way, and I think you're right. In the 16th century, that was not yet. And it really was only with the discovery new world and then the centuries after that, that we can definitively say, okay, we know the entire globe and we know everybody, that basically Christianity has reached the entire globe. [00:10:18] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm very disturbed to meet another person who uses the word persnickety. So. No, because I do on occasion, too. So anyway, but. So, yeah, I would argue very strongly that that has happened. I think, you know, overwhelming evidence. I think the Internet's a game changer, obviously. [00:10:36] Speaker A: Right. [00:10:37] Speaker B: So the third one has not happened. Antichrist is not here, or at least he is not been made manifest. I think it's possible he's alive, but he has not been made manifest. So then the question becomes about the falling away, the great apostasy, has that happened? And I think there are legitimate opinions both ways on this. I think it either has or we're in the middle of it, I'll put it that way. And so this relates to something else mentioned by St. Paul and 2nd Thessalonians too. And we'll get to this with some of the Fathers. He referred to a mysterious restrainer. And I think you and I have talked about this a little bit, the catacon. And he refers to it as a singular he and as a neuter it. So it's a it. It's a singular he and a neuter it. He uses two different forms of the word. And so this is a very mysterious thing. And the Fathers are not. There's not a unanimous consensus, but there is a strong majority opinion that the catacomb, the restrainer that holds back the coming of Antichrist is in some sense the Roman Empire, something related to that. So. So naturally, we think, well, the Western Roman Empire fell in 476. The Eastern Roman Empire fell in 1453. Right. Technically, you could argue, in some sense, the Western empire continued till 1806. Some would argue up till the fall of Austria and World War I, which I think is a very interesting and potentially valid argument in the east, at least in a temporal sense, through Russia and whatnot. Czar Nicholas, I think it's very, very interesting that both the Czar of Russia was obviously dethroned and killed, but also a blessed Carl was, was, you know, left the throne basically at the same time. Very, very interesting. [00:12:23] Speaker A: There is some connection between those two. I, I, I've seen it too. There's just something about the, the timing of that, that you have the, the Czar of Russia and the, and the Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary that all basically are overthrown at the same time. [00:12:39] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, try, yeah, it's very interesting. And if people want to see that, I have an episode on our podcast called I forget the title I gave it, but it's an interview with Dr. Alan Fimester, Dear friend of mine. He's on our advisory board. Brilliant man. And it's part one. We actually have a part two. People keep asking me on YouTube on accident, when is part two coming out? Because it's extremely interesting. It's about his book called the Iron Scepter of the Son of Man, Romanitas, as a note of the Church. Very, very interesting stuff. So won't get too far into this right at the moment, but basically we, we start with like Daniel 2, where it describes these four kingdoms and the fourth is clearly Rome and it says has two feet and the feet are made of iron and clay, so it's partially strong, partially weak. And so Dr. Fimister is talking about how he thinks this likely represents the Eastern and Western halves of the Roman Empire. There's, because there's two feet and it's, and Jerome saw in the clay and in the iron a sort of mixing of the barbarian element with the civilized Latin element. So very, very interesting stuff. So, so the question then is, well, if the Roman Empire fell in one way or another, we can, we can. Whether your theory is, you know, Blessed Carl and Tsar Nicholas, or Your theory is 1806 with the, with the Holy Roman Empire abdicating, you know, the forgetting the name of the emperor, but he abdicated as a result of the Napoleonic wars, or you go with romulus Augustus in 476 and the fall of Constantinople in 1453, the temporal power is gone. So St. Thomas Aquinas addresses this as well. And he, in his. I don't need to list, I don't need to list out everything. He says, oh, that's not the part That I was thinking it was. Okay, never mind. I remember what he says. St. Thomas Aquinas says basically the Roman Empire has fallen, so what could this be referring to? And he says what refers to the. The Church, that the fourth kingdom has basically been taken up and assumed into the fifth kingdom, the Messianic kingdom, the eternal kingdom. There are verses in Daniel that have this language of the. The kingdom of will be given to the saints of the most High and whatnot. And so he says the restrainer no longer restraining is obedience of the nations essentially to the Pope. And that when that is no longer happening, that is the restraint that holds back the coming of Antichrist. And this will be the restrainer no longer being moved out of the way, so to speak. And so I will read One quote from St. Bruno of Cologne because I think it's very. He was the founder of the Carthusians. This was in his commentary on Second Thessalonians as well, because I think there are numerous other saints and great theologians that articulate a similar point. My point is, I think Christendom is related to. I'm sorry, the catacomb is related to Christendom in some way. And what is Christendom? I think Christendom is the fullness of the Church understood properly. There isn't church and state. There's spiritual and temporal. And, you know, Christendom is essentially the result of, you know, St. Peter, you know, baptized. This didn't happen, but let's just say it did. St. Peter, the head of the Church, baptizes as a spiritual son who is under his authority. [00:15:45] Speaker A: And. [00:15:45] Speaker B: And that spiritual son becomes emperor of the Roman Empire. Just because he becomes emperor doesn't mean he's no longer St. Peter's son and therefore under his legitimate spiritual authority in matters of faith and morals. So essentially the working out of that logic is Christendom. That's what it is. Okay. And so. And then there's all these Old Testament prophecies. This is something that many of the fathers do talk about. I was actually just going over. If people want to see an example of this, go to book one of St. Augustine's the Harmony of the Gospels. It's just an amazing historical overview where he's basically challenging Jews and pagans and he's saying all these prophecies in the Old Testament, the Scriptures of the very people who reject our God clearly talk about this Messiah coming and treading down the. The gods of the heathen. And this is happening everywhere. He's pointing. The temples are closing. Paganism is going away. This is being fulfilled right in our time, right now. And so, so the, the founding and the maintenance of Christ, it's not utopian, Right. This is not heaven. Right. But. But it is part of this Christ ruling over the nations. Hence the name of Dr. Fimister's book, the Iron Scepter of the Son of Man, because there's a reference to this in the book of Apocalypse. And then iron is uniquely associated with the Roman Empire and Daniel. So Anyway, but here's St. Bruno, Bruno's quote on this. This is. And this is on a quote archive on eternalchristendom.com we have all these topic quote archives. We have about 1.3 million words of content. I'm basically systematizing all the research, all the articles. We've got way more coming. So if people want to check that out, please do. This is what St. Bruno said. This is about he. He lived from 1030 about to 1101. Quote, if he, referring to Antichrist would come into the world. Now, when the majority of people obey the Roman pontiff and when Christian kings thus far preserve the faith, he would have a beast to mount that was not ready and he would not be able to proceed on his way when there is such a decessio. That's referring to the apostasy. The faith will survive on the throne of Peter, even if only in a few. For the saints are said to have obtained the prayers of Christ. When he said to Peter, I have prayed for you, Peter, that your faith may not fail. That's Luke 22:32. So he said just this restrains Antichrist, that who now holds the Christian empire and the unity of the faith may hold this for so long, until iniquity, which is now secret, may be taken from among the myths, that is from among the community, that just as now faith is in public and iniquity in secret, so in the time of Antichrist, faith may be in secret and iniquity in public. Since his members will blush no more at acts of impurity than acts of purity. And those who have faith will be few. So St. Bruno, St. Thomas Aquinas, there are others basically talk about this assumption of the fourth kingdom, Rome by the fifth kingdom, the Messianic kingdom, the Church. And that this is the Catacon, the in its spiritual and temporal element that holds back the coming of Antichrist. So another element with the. We did another episode on this just to put another data point on and then maybe synthesize it all together. But this is not the universal opinion among the Fathers, but It's a strong majority opinion. St. Paul also refers to Antichrist placing himself in the Temple of God. That's how he refers to it in second Thessalonians 2. So there's debate. Does this refer to the church or does this refer to a sort of rebuilt temple in Jerusalem? I actually think it's elements of both. You know, St. Jerome seems to think there's some credence for both, but he'll say his opinion is that it's more likely the Church in some way. St. John Chrysostom seems to lean more toward a rebuilt temple, but he doesn't think the temple will actually be rebuilt. He thinks Antichrist will offer it to the Jews. Now, this is one point, as far as I'm aware, that, that the fathers are unanimous on, and thus per Session four of Trent, it's binding that the Jews will receive Antichrist as Messiah initially at least, and then there will be a mass conversion. And so then the question is, how will Antichrist be so alluring to the. The Jews? I think the offer of rebuilding the Jerusalem Temple, the one and only place that can actually offer sacrifice according to the Torah, would very likely be part of that. And indeed we just did another episode. There was a historical event, we don't have to go into all the details in 363, where Julian the Apostate, who is raised Christian, becomes emperor. Young man in his 30s, I think, and he apostasizes as his name, you know, sounds like. And he tried to revive paganism, and so he opened the pagan temples, he brought back the pagan priests, he. He actually attacked relics and veneration of relics. He hated that. So as. As did many pagans, which really shocked me as a Protestant, I'm like, why are the pagans hating this really pagan thing? It's just like, maybe it's not pagan, maybe it's Christian, you know, it's like, you know, anyway. But he called us Galileans. He called Catholics Galileans, you know, after the Sea of Galilee, obviously. And so. So anyway, he goes to the Jewish leaders and says, why are you not offering sacrifice? They said, well, we've been expelled from Jerusalem, we don't have our temple, and that's the one place according to our religion, that we can offer sacrifice. So he offers to help them rebuild it. And actually, the Christian accounts of this give some credit to the Jews because they, they say that Julian did this deceptively, that he was offering it in order to get them started on their own sacrifices, in order to eventually offer pagan sacrifices. So, but, but the Christian accounts basically say the Jews weren't aware of this, which I think is actually probably what will happen with Antichrist. They will, they won't be aware of it. And then they'll realize, oh my gosh, we've been had. And then there will be a sort of Zechariah 12 realization of the. Of him whom they have pierced. And they will repent. They will, they will mourn for him as an only son. That's the language from Zechariah 12. So, so they, they get the, the Jews accept his offer. They get going on restarting it. They've gotta, they've got to clear out all the waste, you know, from the, from the rubble of the temple. But as they're doing that, the accounts vary somewhat, but they all basically agree there's a massive earthquake. There's explosions of fire from, from, from these rocks. Some even say the rocks were being blown left and right and maiming people's bodies, the workers bodies, as they were moving. And then the next night, it sounds like there was a storm. And then even the sign of the cross appeared on the sky. And then it started appearing on the clothing of many of the workers. And so I think it was St. Gregory Nazianz who said quite a few of them became Catholic. They were like. Many of them were Jews, and they're like, okay, we believe now. And so they went to the priest and became Catholic. But eventually, obviously, the project was completely abandoned. So this attempt to rebuild it was, was completely scuttled. And what was very interesting, another interesting element is the Bishop of Jerusalem at that time was Saint Cyril of Jerusalem. And the historical account, some of them referred to him and basically say he said, it's never going to work. Because what was Julian trying to do? Julian was trying to disprove that Christ was Messiah. And what, what they were talking about was Christ's words in the Gospels about there will not be one stone left upon another. And there's language in Daniel, I think, nine, that talks about the house being desolate until the end. And so many of the fathers seem to believe that there will not be a rebuilt temple on that spot because of the prophecy of Daniel and the promise of Christ. And so Julian wanted to literally falsify Christ. So, so that incredibly antichristic. And it's also, again, this teaming up of pagan and Jewish. Very, very interesting because that's exactly what happened in the Passion of our Lord. And so I think there will be some sort of element of that in, in the Passion of the Church as well. And so. So anyway, very, very interesting prospect. So I mentioned the cereal Jerusalem because about 12 years earlier he had written these catechetical lectures. You probably read them when you were coming into the church. I mean, most Protestant converts have amazing, amazing stuff. Talking about the sacraments, the Eucharist, etc. Well, In Catechetical Lecture 15, I think I could be getting it wrong. But he talks about what this temple is in second Thessalonians 2. He thinks it will be a, an attempt to rebuild a Jerusalem temple by Antichrist to convince the Jews that he is the Messiah. And he says in about 350. So this is again 12, 13 years before Julian's attempt. This will never happen because Daniel's prophecy and our Lord's promise, prophecy, whatever, however you want to phrase it. And so he was on the record. And so the Christian accounts say that he was saying the same thing in 363. And he was right. It didn't happen. It was completely prevented. So there's a mysterious line. I'll mention one more element here, Luke 21. I believe it's Luke 21, where our Lord talks about Jerusalem being trodden underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. It's somewhat mysterious and I actually haven't found that much patristic commentary on it, but It's. I know Dr. Fimester believes this, as do I. It seems to imply, I think this times of the Gentiles is the coming in of the Gentiles that will, you know, symbolically be ended during the time of the great apostasy. And it does imply that there will be a Jewish sovereignty over Jerusalem in one way or another, which would be necessary if Antichrist is to at least offer the prospect of building a temple. Because there's literally only one spot where that can happen. And so with the disappearance of Christendom, the disappearance of the Roman Empire, the going of the Gospel to the ends of the earth, the reestablishment of Jewish sovereignty in Jerusalem, the, even the symbolical, symbolic giving up of Christendom by Pope Paul vi, laying down of the tiara, which, no, you know, which represented the unity of temporal and spiritual power. Not amalgamation, but unity. No pope has worn it since. So I think we have all these signs that there is, there was a restraint in place that is no longer in place. And I guess the final, final thing I'll say we've talked about this and then, and then you push back or, you know, anything you want to do, but is Covid you know, I came into the church July 13, 2019. Another thing the fathers are unanimous about. St. Robert Bellarmin talks about this in chapter seven of his work, Antichrist is that. And, and this is very interesting coming from. As a former evangelical, there's. There are prophecies in Daniel about the, the daily sacrifice being brought to an end for three and a half years. So because as an evangelical, I had no context for knowing what the heck that was other than Jewish sacrifices. We assumed, oh, the third Temple has to be rebuilt and those sacrifices need to be offered and Antichrist will bring them to an end. But that really, really confused me as an evangelical because I'm like, if Antichrist represents the epitome of evil, why would it be evil to bring sacrifices that aren't pleasing to God to an end? That just made no sense. [00:26:46] Speaker A: Right. [00:26:47] Speaker B: And so while I found out in the Church Fathers, the sacrifice isn't goats and rams and bulls and doves, it's the Eucharist, it's the Mass, it's the public sacrifice of the Mass. And so the Fathers are unanimous that Antichrist will bring the public sacrifice of the Mass. Though there will be surreptit underground masses, I'm sure, but he will bring the public sacrifice of the Mass to an end, basically, worldwide. I have to study a little bit more. It clearly Antichrist will have some sort of global power, but it also appears there will be some who are able to fight against him. I have to say that a little bit more, but essentially worldwide, he will bring the public sacrifice of the Mass to an end. So that's binding as a matter of Catholic faith. Well, in 2020, I didn't even get to attend my first Easter. I still remember your diocesan map of the whole country going black. Right. This, this happened. This is the single closest we have ever come in the history of the world to what Antichrist will actually do. Does that mean he's necessarily right around the corner? Not necessarily, but I don't think it's nuts. I. I just don't think it's nuts. And so anyway, those are some preliminary thoughts. [00:27:54] Speaker A: Yeah. If nothing else, it tells us how something like that could happen, because it actually did happen. I mean, where the public sacrifice of the Mass was basically. I didn't, of course, track the whole world. I just tracked the United States. But it was essentially most of the world was shut down and did not have the public sacrifice of the Mass. And it's kind of like you might think, well, that how could that ever happen? How could the bishops ever Go along with that? Well, we actually saw, even if that wasn't the one that we're talking, you know, the actual end times one, it happened. Now one thing I think is interesting is you're talking about the Jewish temple. And so it sounds like there is some debate about whether or not the temple will be rebuilt and sacrifice and Jewish sacrifices restarted before the Antichrist among the church fathers. It's not like a set in stone thing, but that's some. [00:28:43] Speaker B: But that is, I say pretty strongly they won't be re. Because again, the sack, the prophecy of the sacrifice ending refers to the mass among the followers. [00:28:51] Speaker A: What I'm saying is, is there, is it possible though, is one plausible scenario for the end times that the Jewish temple will be rebuilt and the animal sacrifices will start back up? [00:29:03] Speaker B: I personally don't think so. I think there will be an attempt to do it. [00:29:07] Speaker A: Okay. [00:29:07] Speaker B: It'll be offered and it will seem like it's about to be accomplished, but I don't, I don't think it will succeed. Yeah. [00:29:14] Speaker A: Similar to what happened with Julian Apostate. [00:29:17] Speaker B: Yeah, the, the, the, the similarity between what happened with Julian the apostate and what the father, many fathers say Antichrist will do with the Jew. Extremely eerie. Yeah. [00:29:26] Speaker A: Yeah. Right. And so what I think is interesting is of course the, even a lot of American evangelical Christians, they are very much behind the modern state of Israel primarily for theological reasons that they believe. And I, I, to be honest, I wasn't really into this when I was a Protestant. That was a long time ago. So I get a little bit confused at times exactly what they're saying lately. But my understanding is, is they, they are wanting the temple to be rebuilt because they believe that will kick off then the, the second coming, that that will be kind of the, the, the thing that starts the, the process, the clock running so that the, that Christ will come back soon. [00:30:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:10] Speaker A: And so is that basically just like they're taking kind of what the Bible says in certain places, what the church fathers say in some places, and kind of just creating their own thing? I mean, where do they get that and, and where are they kind of wrong on that? [00:30:24] Speaker B: They're not getting it from the fathers, that's for sure. Again, this was one of the areas. Whereas an evangelical, it, it was a huge incoherence in my mind. It just made no sense why the epitome of evil would bring unworthy sacrifices to an end. Because even as an evangelical, I understood God is no longer pleased by goats and rams and bulls and whatever. I, I think Most evangelicals believe that. But then it's like, well, why would the epitome of evil bring something unworthy to an end? That just doesn't make sense? [00:30:53] Speaker A: Well, would they say that, like the, The. That that's a necessary step for Christ's return, that you have the ins. The. The temple rebuilt, the animal sacrifices start back up, then Antichrist? Yeah, basically. And then we have the conversion of the Jews, somewhat mass conversion of the Jews to Christianity. And then you have the second coming. Is that kind of the. [00:31:13] Speaker B: I think that's basically. Yeah, I think that's basically. But. But that's where, you know, there were some evangelicals in Texas who were helping breed these red heers. This is real. These, you know, red female cows. Hearing about that, you and some rabbis went out and, you know, halakically, that's a reference to Jewish law, said this, this works, this passes kosher, I guess. And because you need a red heer to sacrifice one. It's in the law of Moses for the tabernacle, for the temple. And so they are in Israel now. And I've heard rumors. I don't really look into it because again, most of my day is spent in these guys because I. I'm focused on getting souls into the church as much as possible. But they are in Israel. They are in the Holy Land. And. Yeah, it's just. It. There's just so many things that have happened within our lifetime and within the lifetimes of our parents and grandparents that are just totally unprecedented and they are prophetically significant. They really, really are. Again, I mean, kind of what I. I listed before, but. But no, I think so. Ironically, I think many. You know, there's a line from Saint Cesareos of Arles, a great church father and doctor. I think he's a doctor of the church. I'm great homilist. Amazing sermons of people want to get his stuff from Catholic University of America. But he has this line where he says that when Antichrist comes, there will be a crowd of heretics ready to greet him. I believe that's true and I think we're seeing it right now, frankly. [00:32:43] Speaker A: We got plenty of heretics I know, around us. What about just the idea to kind of push back a little bit? [00:32:49] Speaker B: Sure. [00:32:49] Speaker A: You could almost see like, for example, what Julian the apostate did. What the Protestant Reformation, where we had just mass apostasy away from the church. Those are, in a sense, I think we probably would agree that those in a sense are a type of. Of the. The final, the. The second, the actual apocalypse and there could be other, there's others as well. We could, we could probably point to. But couldn't it just be true then that what's happening now is also just a type for the eventual apocalypse? That there's, yes, there are some things, there are similarities to it, but because we definitely have an apostasy like we had prior reformation, we definitely have like kind of signs of obviously with the modern state of Israel being created of a potential temple or something like that. But that could be a type for the final, like is it, is it, Would you agree that that's, that's, that's a possibility? We're not actually in the end times, but we're, we do have some things that definitely are kind of. Yeah, hypes for that. [00:33:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it could be, it's not my personal opinion, but I could be wrong. I, I really do hold these things somewhat loosely. What I'm, what I'm, what I really push back against is hysteria on one side and ostrich in the, in the, in the dirt on the other side. Or, you know, I, I, and I think you may actually agree. I, I, I don't think we're in a, I don't think we're in a time that's just as evil as other times. I just don't believe that. I think with the overturning of gender, the overturning of marriage, the Internet, the proliferation of pornography, the complete decimation of entire multiple generations of their, of their, of their imaginations through pornography, the advent of A.I. you know, I, I'm seeing more of these ads where you can literally use AI to design like a sexual fantasy and watch it. And if you look at the way that these tech overlords who are creating this stuff, what they articulate about their, I don't think they can actually do this. They are essentially, theologically, what they're saying is we are going to create a rational soul. Yes, that's what they're saying. Only God can do that. So many of the most powerful and rich and influential people on this planet right now are saying this technology that they're creating will impact every area of life. And whether they realize it or not, it's utterly satanic. Their goals, their goal is utterly satanic. [00:35:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm actually writing a book on artificial intelligence. I got a, I just signed a contract about a month ago and, and reading the, the proponents of AI like I'm actually a pro AI guy in general. I admit it, I'm a tech geek and stuff like that. But at the same time, when I read what some of these people, their philosophy is so bad that it's like, bad is not the right word. You now you have to use the word evil or demonic. Yeah, but what's interesting is they don't, I mean, they don't realize it really. They really do. Like, they do really think, like, because. And a lot of this. Then all of a sudden what you notice is the, the. The religion of evolution becomes very much part. And I see that purposely the idea of the religion, because of the idea that they don't believe that God created the rational, conscious, you know, consciousness that we have, they think they could create it through, like, it's almost like this. It's kind of weird when you read them because they talk about how we, you know, they came to find consciousness. A lot of times when they do, it's like it just kind of happened one day through evolution that all of a sudden the, the brain started, blah, blah, blah, and now we have it and they kind of think, well, we can just imitate that with machines and one day they'll be conscious. And it's an interesting, it's an interesting thing that clearly is very evil. I just, I admit, I just have a. Like when I read. Okay, I know you've read all this stuff too. But like, when I read, for example, you will read people from the, the Dark Ages, from the, the Middle Ages, from, you know, Reformation, so that. And they will talk as if the end of the world is nigh, that everything is evil. And so when I read that, I'm kind of like, well, that's what we're saying too. And they're like, this is the worst time ever. We're saying it's the worst time ever. Or like, it's a really bad. You know, it's like, is it just a matter of perspective that we're in the midst of it and we kind of gloss over the real issues. I mean, like, you know, the real issues of that. The real evils that existed in the past, you know, when every bishop is Aryan practically, or in the dark, in the, in the 10th century when the, the papacy was just a joke and was just corrupt and immoral and awful and, you know, the, the I, the cat, you know, nobody knew the faith really. And, you know, and so I'm just like, that's kind of what always keeps me from going too much into the. Okay, the end is nigh now is because, I mean, I, you know, it's funny because I am of two minds when you say that when you kind of list it, I'm like, well, I guess you got a good point there, Joshua. We got, you know, wise for pornography. We got the AI stuff. We got, I mean, just a mass apostle. What's that? [00:38:17] Speaker B: Christendom's gone. [00:38:18] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, Christian. [00:38:19] Speaker B: I mean, approval of the popes. [00:38:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:22] Speaker B: And so like, the Jews are back in Jerusalem. [00:38:25] Speaker A: Oh, shut up now. Now you're just like, okay, So. I mean, the funny thing is there is part of me that thinks. That thinks, okay, you got some valid points there. But there's always this thing. [00:38:38] Speaker B: Well, I'm not saying the end is nigh, just to be clear. That's not. [00:38:40] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. [00:38:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. [00:38:42] Speaker A: Just. [00:38:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:43] Speaker A: Are you saying. Okay, let's. Let's make sure. Clear what you are saying. [00:38:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:47] Speaker A: Are you saying mostly like the pieces are being put in place that would make it for a good opportunity for the Antichrist if he did come? Is that kind of what you're basically. [00:38:56] Speaker B: I mean, look, I have my personal opinion and I'm. I'm being more and more upfront about this these days. My personal opinion is that if somebody put a gun to my head is that it is more likely than not, that within my lifetime. I'm 37, so if I live to, you know, mid-80s or whatever, that more likely than not, this is going to happen in my lifetime. I could be wrong. I'm not dogmatic about it. I think smart, good people like yourself can disagree with that. That's my, that's my hunch. And even in me, I have some uncertainty about that, as I think we all should, because no man knows the time or the hour. But we do see Jesus doing both things. There's no man knows the time or the hour. And he also chastises the Pharisees for not knowing the signs of the times. [00:39:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:40] Speaker B: So I think we can hold both intention. [00:39:42] Speaker A: Because I don't want to talk about that, because you do hear the dismissal. Anytime anybody says anything by Antichrist or Apocalypse, they're like, well, Jesus said we don't know. And so what did Jesus really say? Like, what? Really? And what. How did the church fathers kind of interpret what Jesus was saying as far as our knowledge? Like, if Antichrist comes first of all, I think we. I think we both would agree that when he does come, a lot of people are going to follow him and think he's actually the. The. Maybe not Christ, but he thinks he. He's like a savior, a type of savior, including many Catholics. And so, like, what is that balance of like Jesus saying, you know, you don't actually know when it's going to happen, but at the same time, look at the signs and be aware. I mean, what, what is that balance we're supposed to have? [00:40:32] Speaker B: I think the balance is keep your spiritual peace, go to Mass, go to confession, pray the rosary, do spiritual reading. I mean, all those things. Read Scripture, all those things keep me very grounded. I will say, to go to your point earlier, I have often heard everybody thinks their time is the worst. That has honestly not been my experience when I'm studying these various sources. You know, St. Bruno of Cologne, for example, just flat out said, this is not the time because this has not happened. St. Thomas Aquinas implicitly says that some fathers, St. Pope Gregory the Great, did seem to think that they were close to the end. [00:41:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I was thinking of him actually as one. [00:41:14] Speaker B: I know you've done. Yeah, but, but other fathers are not, you know, St. Augustine's very agnostic about it. Other fathers are like, no, this isn't the time yet. So. And I've. I found other saints who are similar. You know, even Henry Cardinal Manning, he writing in the mid 19th century. Yeah, forget it's been a while since I've read the book, but Crisis of Faith or something like that about the Romans, he's talking about. He basically is talking about the fall of the temporal authority of the Pope and that this would be a harbinger of Antichrist. Well, that's essentially happened too, so. But he was saying it's not now, so. And my point is, I found many thoughtful voices over the last 2000 years who have said, this is not the time, but here is what will happen. And a lot of what they have said will happen. Not all, but has arguably happened. We lived through this dystopian movie called Covid. I have not forgotten about that. And I know you haven't either. No, but. But it's just, you know, I put my timer on when it started, you know, because I, I was literally like, oh, my gosh, this is literally what. I came into the church mostly because of the Church Fathers. And, and I knew very clearly they had a unanimous consensus on this point. I was like, oh, my goodness. [00:42:27] Speaker A: Did they have a time frame for how long? The public celebr. [00:42:31] Speaker B: And a half years. [00:42:31] Speaker A: Three and a half years. [00:42:32] Speaker B: Three and a half years. [00:42:33] Speaker A: Now, is it possible something like that is symbolic, the. The time frame? [00:42:38] Speaker B: Because, you know, possibly I've not gotten that from the Fathers, but possibly. Possibly, yeah. Again, I think, you know, I. How to Put it. I think we all need to be a bit more adults. I think we need to be able to hold things in tension. [00:42:51] Speaker A: Right. [00:42:51] Speaker B: You know, and I. I know you can do that, but many people can. It's like they need to grow up. We need to be able to hold these things, intentions. That's like part of being an adult and, you know, operating in life. I don't always do it perfectly. I'm. You don't always do it perfectly, but we have to be able to hold, you know, like right before Luther came on the scene, lad. And five, I think explicitly said, don't set dates for the end times. That's just wrong, per our Lord's words, whatever. So nobody should do that. I do think that. I think the very big difference in my approach is I'm going from a very scriptural patristic foundation, whereas I think many people start on the complete opposite end of the spectrum. I think this is very inappropriate or not inappropriate, but unhelpful. They start with private revelation. [00:43:31] Speaker A: Okay, that's what I was going to bring up. I'm glad you brought that. [00:43:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So I completely disagree with that. [00:43:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. Because I. That was something I was going to bring up because I admit, I just. I get the heebie jeebies. I don't know what you want to call it when some Catholic is like, Our lady said this at this place. And so. And they kind of have this very specific. Okay, this is going to happen. This is going to happen. And I'm just like. And then they kind of like it. Honestly, it reminds me of some of the apocalyptic ravings of some in the Protestant world where somebody predicts all in 2012, this, you know, in the world happened, whatever the case. And it. [00:44:05] Speaker B: 88 reasons. [00:44:06] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, right. [00:44:08] Speaker B: Why the world will end in 1988. And then there are nine reasons why it will end in 1989 or whatever. [00:44:13] Speaker A: Exactly. So, like, I think it's. I just saw. I think it might have been that book I saw. I was at a used bookstore and it was one of those books of, like, you know, why the world's going to end. And it was like 2019, whatever I thought was pretty. I almost bought it just for the comic, the entertainment value. But, like, so what is the problem with. I mean, I'm not like, Our lady has appeared. I want to make sure include everybody that. That is listening. I do believe, like, for example, Our lady appeared at Fatima. She appeared at Lords. You know, I'm not. And I think other apparitions as well. But what is the problem? Like what is, why are you kind of distinguishing between what you've been doing and kind of what you hear, starting with private revelation? What's the problem with that? [00:44:55] Speaker B: Well, I think some elements of private revelation are. Well, one private revelation can never be dogmatic. That's the first point. The second point would be that the unanimity of the Fathers is dogmatic. It is. And so that's, that's a big difference. And so I won't claim to know all the details of every private revelation. I do think some private revelations have been extremely helpful in knowing the signs of the times. There are others. You know, I think many people get into Garabandal and other mysterious ones with La Salette. You know, Rome become the seat of the Antichrist, whatever that are not, I don't know the provenance of the documents in these, with some of these. And, and I know Garabandal has not been officially approved, is my understanding. So again, the Church teaches session four of the Council of Trent. I encourage people to go to it. And they, again, they were fighting against Protestantism and saying bas, anybody who would interpret Scripture contrary to the unanimous consensus of the Fathers is that's a no go. Okay. So that's why, following the lead of the Church, I go with Scripture, starting with Scripture. And the unanimous consensus of the Fathers also the, the consensus of theologians is considered infallible as well. And so, so yeah, my, my, the things we need to hold intention are historically in the grand sweep of history. Look, the Church starts, it has this multi century period of persecution, Christendom, you know, the temporal power begins submitting to the spiritual power. Well, we can see the last few centuries that the, it's like a reverse image. Right, right. And so I do think that symmetry is very, very interesting. And I do think again, like, you know, for example, if somebody said, well, we've had bad posts before with Pope Francis, well, God bless them, I pray for a soul. I, I don't agree. I think Pope Francis was uniquely problematic and I've read about all the troublesome Popes before. Oh yeah, I would gladly take a whoring Borgia over Pope Francis, just to be frank, because there was a confusion about the faith itself that, and I think sometimes he was misrepresented. I think sometimes he said some amazing things. I think his Evangeli Gowdy had some amazing lines in it that are very necessary for our time. But there were many other times, you know, why he kept being interviewed by Scalfari, the Atheist journalist friend who is coming out and basically saying he doesn't believe in certain dogmatic parts of the Catholic faith. And the Vatican never just flat out said, no, that's wrong. There are many, many things that he did that caused huge confusion. And frankly, as somebody who's in evangelism and apologetics and whatnot, the biggest hurdle I often faced was Pope Francis. I had numerous Protestant friends. Now, I think ultimately if you're going to convert, you need to convert whoever the Pope is. Right. If you truly believe. So they were somewhat in the wrong for not converting. So I would they. Well, not somewhat. They were in the wrong, but many of them were literally to the point of, I think it's probably all true, but there's this Francis guy. And so, and again, sometimes Pope Francis was misrepresented. But I do think he was a sui generis case. And I, I don't think he was, I don't think there was precedent for someone like Francis, frankly. [00:48:14] Speaker A: Yeah, I think the way you word it, I'm more on board with, I didn't like, people say he's the worst because what's your, what's your bar? What do you mean by that? But being unique, I mean, there definitely was, you know, a lot of confusion. But you could also argue somebody like Paul VI who, you know, allowed so much destruction under his watch to happen and, you know, you could argue about his, you know, making the radical changes to the Mass and things like that. [00:48:47] Speaker B: Well. [00:48:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I was gonna say that kind of. I know that's like just strengthening your argument. I know that. [00:48:54] Speaker B: No, this is where the Passion of the Church comes in. I'm working on a work, a book on this slowly because I've got other books to finish first. But, you know, the Church talks about paragraph 675 to 77 about the passion of the Church. So I, I, I think in many ways, as we can interpret the Old Testament as types of the New. I think we can look at the Passion of our Lord as a type for the Passion of the Church. And what happened during the Passion of our Lord, Peter was a no show. [00:49:20] Speaker A: Right. [00:49:21] Speaker B: Peter didn't outright deny the Lord. He, well, he did, but what he didn't say, Jesus is not Messiah is what I mean, he never said that. He denied his unique association with him. [00:49:33] Speaker A: Right. [00:49:34] Speaker B: He said, I don't know him. So, and yet our Lord in Luke, you know, I, the, the Catechism or St. Bruno, I think quoted it, you know, I've prayed for you that your faith may not fail. So I think what, what Peter fell into was a failure of love, not a failure of faith. I believe he still believed he was the Christ, the son of the living God, but he shrunk back in love and because I don't think our words and our Lord's words and Luke makes sense, otherwise it would. You know, I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. But we know as Catholics that if our faith is all we have, we're not going to be in heaven. Right. So you can still go to hell with your faith alone. Right. If you're not living faith through love. And so. So, yeah, when you look at the Passion of our Lord, Peter doesn't look very good. And so whatever that time is, the passion of the Church, whether it's now or in the future, I don't think Peter will look very good. [00:50:31] Speaker A: What about. You've heard people say that Pope is going to be the Antichrist, like the Antichrist will become the Pope. Yeah, I just want to make sure. Okay. Yeah. [00:50:39] Speaker B: Robert Ballerman very, very thoroughly refutes this, this ridiculous idea in, in his treatise Antichrist. [00:50:46] Speaker A: And so the idea, though, there could be a very weak Pope who could even in ways support the Antichrist. Is that possible? Like in his just, I mean, like, Peter supported. [00:50:57] Speaker B: I mean, Peter kind of did, inadvertently. Yeah. [00:50:59] Speaker A: Yeah. He supported people who killed Jesus. And so, like, getting back to the point of kind of like the proper attitude, you were saying, like, you know, spiritual peace, your prayers, you know, you study all that stuff. Well, wouldn't, couldn't you. Wouldn't you agree that the average Catholic, if they just do that, they'll be fine without any knowledge of what's coming? Like, if somebody is close to the sacraments, they're, they're praying a lot and, you know, they're, they're living out their faith, but they're completely, like, ignorant about the, the world events that are leading to Antichrist. Even if Antichrist comes, that person will be fine, don't you think? Or do you think they need to have some type of knowledge, maybe? [00:51:45] Speaker B: Well, notice that I haven't pointed too much to events in this in the sense of, like, news headlines a little bit. A little bit here and there, but it's mostly based on broad historical realities. Like, you know, the Jews having sovereignty over Jerusalem after nearly 2, 000 years. Like, you know, that's not a headline that's coming out on Drudge. Right. It's just a fact of history, you know, the last number of decades. So. So, yeah, I mean, I think Most, I think part of the bane of the virtual world, the Internet, is that it. We were talking about this a little bit beforehand, before we started recording it. I think it, it, it inculcates a sense of false duties. Like it makes people feel responsible for things that they're simply not responsible for, like changing the course of world history or they've got to comment on every little thing. I think that's very, very unhealthy. It's why like at eternal Christendom, you know, our primary focus is getting people into the sources. Right. And we say that our goal is to help people become, remain and deepen their lives as Catholics hidden with Christ and God. That's quoting Colossians 3. 3. So my mark, I think there's a place for good commentary like at Crisis magazine, of course. But, but that's not my role. Like that's part of how I stay anchored and I'm in these sources. And look, since COVID especially I've lived day to day more than ever before. You know, I've done, I've done, you know, pretty well. I'm making a lot less money now than I did because I'm heading a non profit. Right. But, but that's fine. I'm not in, I'm not in this for money. Like I joked with some of my White House colleagues when I was there during 2020 who were all Catholic converts on the speechwriting team. I said, you know what sucks about becoming Catholic? And they said, what? And I said, we can't complain about suffering anymore. And, and you know, I'll say that one saint and Father, I've just been completely blown away by a saint. Pope Gregory the Great. His moralia on Job is just spellbinding. It's five volumes. It's bigger than City of God and Confessions put together. The wisdom of that man is beyond imagining. And, but he really talks about detachment from the perishable things of this world. So I think there one thing you didn't mention, I sure I know you would agree, is penance. I think we need to do a lot more penance. Yeah, I think we need. Because when we're doing penance and fasting, we are practicing saying no to our lower passions. [00:54:08] Speaker A: I do the divine office each day in the morning and I always read the Saint of the day. It's an old pre55 office and it's always amazing how in the descriptions of the saints how almost every single one of them, it brings up their penances, it brings up the fact that they were the Things that they did that were just by our standards are just superhuman. Yeah, and I'm sure they wouldn't think that at all. I mean, technically it is. [00:54:36] Speaker B: Well, it is superhuman. [00:54:37] Speaker A: Yeah, that's true. They would have thought that, but they would thought of grace. Yeah, but it's just like we can't even conceive of that. But. And we live in a spirit in, in a, in a world of comfort. I actually reading just started a book called Comfort Crisis Inspired. It's not a Catholic book. And it's about though it's this guy who basically is saying one of the things that's bringing us down is the fact, you know, like having all these problems we have today of stress, anxiety, depression and stuff is simply because we're comfortable at all times. We're physically comfortable all times. You literally live in 72 degree temperature like 98% of the day. You, you never have to have any physical exertion for most of us because we sit in front of a computer all day. There's, you know, any food you want, at any moment you want, you can have. There's never a delivery too. Yeah, deliver right. You don't have to get off your butt practically. You just get it to you. You know, we have a remote control tv, we have our screens in front of us all day. And his point is, and he comes from it for, like I said, it's not, it's a secular viewpoint, but it's. I think he's very right. But he's talking Mike, Mike East. Michael East. Easter Easter is his last name. And, and I, you know, I heard a podcast by, with him. That's why I'm reading it now. But he's talking about how this. We're just simply. Now he, he brings an evolutionary. But I always think like talk about that. I just say, I just translate. That's how God made us. But the point is, is like we're just not made for the level of comfort we have. Like, that's why, I mean, also he brought up this thing about how people they, you always will have basically, you always have something they complain about. And there's been studies done about this that if, like I think it was a study where they showed the faces of people and they asked the person, okay, tell me whether or not this person is. Appears threatening or not. And they had 800 faces. And what they did was after 200, they did not tell the people this. They changed it so that almost none of the faces were threatening anymore. Yet what happened was inevitably everybody kept the Same percentage of threatening. Like, they basically just started, like, realizing, you know, they started, like, judging more harshly, and then they. They've done other studies like this before, similar. And what it means is, like, we find. We will find something to complain about. Like, it's literally. It's been proven first world problems is a real thing. [00:56:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:58] Speaker A: And so, like, boy, is that true, man? When we have nothing to really complain about, which most of us don't, we will find something to complain about that. Oh, it's a little bit hot at the beach today or whatever the case or. My Internet is slow today. I was just compl. My wife last night that I was having Internet problems with a podcast, and I was whining about it. I mean, we'll find. [00:57:18] Speaker B: Still happening. You had that problem with me last time. [00:57:21] Speaker A: No, I fixed it. [00:57:22] Speaker B: Okay. [00:57:23] Speaker A: Came back, like, about three weeks ago, and that's what. That's what I was so mad about, because I was like, what happened? I fixed it. I was fine for like a year and then just came back. Anyway. The point of all this is that this does kind of lead to a point like these. These items that are happening, we definitely live. There's no question in my mind. We live in the most comfortable age ever. I mean, there's. That cannot be debated in any real. I mean, our. Our poor people live like the kings of old. I mean, that's just the reality. I mean, you know, I'm not talking about, like, a mentally ill person on this. I mean, somebody who's even in poverty. What they have, they have big screen tv, they have plumbing, you know, indoor plumbing. They have all that stuff. So I do think that something like us living in a comfortable age, that obviously is something that goes against the faith. I mean, it makes it harder to practice the faith because we're so comfortable. And so what I'm saying is you convince me the. The Antichrist is here. No, but I do think that there are a lot of check boxes. I mean, I'm totally in agreement with that. I just. I have this natural aversion to saying it's the end times. I know you're not saying that either. Some people are, and they're claiming that, but I think. I think you're being smart about that, not claiming it. The last thing I kind of want to talk about this, you know, talking about the, you know, comfort talk about, you know, increasing. We talk about the. The apostasy. We talked about the, you know, the end of the Roman Empire. However we want to define it, at the very least, in 19 in. During World War I. But what about, like, the role of technology? Yeah, like with. We mentioned AI briefly, but like transhumanism and things like that. Like how. How do you think that could tie in to a potentially apocalyptic scene? And how does technology kind of advance that potential? [00:59:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, let me say one quick thing about that book. It's funny because I was just in San Diego, on a beach in San Diego for the July 4th weekend, and I saw a guy reading, just sit lounging on the beach reading that book. [00:59:29] Speaker A: Oh, is that right? [00:59:29] Speaker B: Very attracted to it. Because one of the things. This is kind of one of the ways I was pre converted before coming to the Catholic faith. I did a whole lot of research on the founding fathers of America who had various issues. But one of the things that they frequently talked about that I didn't know growing up in a Reaganite household was they were very skeptical of luxury, many of them. And they believed, you know, people like John Adams, coming from Puritan stock, believe that luxury would destroy the pursuit of virtuous liberty in this country. You know, he. There's a, There's a line he has. I think I forget. He's talking to one of his female relatives and he basically says, you know, what would I tell my countrymen to do to preserve their liberty? And he said, ban pearls and jewels and silk and all this. All these nice things. [01:00:15] Speaker A: Right. [01:00:15] Speaker B: Because he thought that that would completely decay, you know, our ability to maintain a sort of virtuous liberty. So anyway, as far as the technology element. Yeah, I mean, we kind of said it before. The, the, the aspirations of the most powerful people on earth are openly satanic. They're openly satanic. And to connect it with the comfort thing, I do think the comfort thing actually dulls our perception of just how wicked our time is, frankly. Because, for example, World War II was, what, 60 million people dead? 50 to 60 million. Somewhere in there, you see that out in the open. Well, our country has murdered that many babies, but it's all done, you know, kind of sanitized behind the scene in clinics. We don't see it. In the meantime, we get the binge in our Netflix and watch our videos and, you know, whatever. So there's a sort of banality of evil, to use Hannah Arendt's phrase, that has, like, taken over society. I don't, you know, if you were to look at, you know, the average things that, that kids get exposed to these days, it's unlike anything in our nation's history. Not only on the pornography front, but, But Just the satanic, occultic sorts of things and music videos that are seen by text, tens of millions of people, the sorts of complete and utter sexual degeneracy that has taken over many of these songs that people are like, you know, bopping to and whatnot. So I, I actually think our creature comforts diminish, have diminished our ability to see how truly unprecedented a lot of this is. There has never been the ability to promulgate sexual degeneracy, occultism, Satanism, the, the worship of child murder, frankly, to so many people so easily, all the time. Never in history. [01:02:15] Speaker A: Did you see the interview with Tucker Carlson with Daryl Cooper about the Epstein and did you, at the end of that is. I almost had to turn it off. I almost couldn't even listen to it because it was so bad. What I mean, he was, I'm not saying they were bad. What I'm saying is what Daryl Cooper was talking about and Tucker talking about with what the Washington elites do, like openly was so disturbing. And it's literally like right out there in our faces too. [01:02:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh no, I, I, I, I think, I mean this is very speculative and I don't dive too much into it because frankly I, I want to be a saint and the only thing, it'd be good for my soul. But yeah, I do believe part of my whole theory of history is that before the incarnation, the world was ruled by, you know, elites, you could say, teamed up with the demons. This system was broken. Not completely destroyed, but broken by Christ led to Christian whatever. Again, not a utopia but, but a, a space in which the elect could be brought into the church. Which is part of the reason why one of the signs before the end is that the Gospel has gone to the ends of the earth because all the elect from the four corners of the world need to be brought into the church in order for Christ to come back. All the fish need to come into the net as, as in the stories of the Gospel, which the fathers do refer to the end of the world, that Christ being on the shore. I was just reading another one from Pope Gregory the Great the other day. Christ being on the shore is him being an eternity in heaven and bringing the net to the shore is bringing in the harvest of all souls to eternity. So anyway, very, very interesting stuff. So, yeah, I, I think this system has been brought back. You know, I think Apocalypse 20 is basically an outline of post incarnation history. Verses 1 through 3 talk about this great dragon being bound and thrown into the pit so he can't deceive the nations anymore. And then at verse four, it says thrones were set up for those to whom judgment was committed. I think that's the apostles and their successors. Jesus talks about this, and I think Matthew 19 and Luke 22 to the apostles that he will. They will sit on 12 thrones, drudging, judging the tribes of Israel. And I think it's in Matthew, it could have been Luke, but it's one of them. He says, when this will happen, he says, in the new world, you will sit on thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel. And he says, when this will happen? When the Son of Man sits on his throne. I think that's his language. When did that happen? At the Ascension. At the Ascension. There's. There's tons of verses in the New Testament that are crystal clear about this, that the Son of Man began to sit on his throne at the Ascension. And so I. But then at verse seven, I think it is of Apocalypse 20. It talks about this dragon being released for a brief time, and then he gathers the nations against the. The Holy city, the Church. And so I think it's very likely we're in that time. And. And I think, man, this could be a whole other topic, maybe, maybe for another day. But yeah, I do believe. I believe there are. And I don't dive into it too much because again, I want to be a saint. I don't need to know all the details, but. But I do think in principle, what I'm about to say is extreme is very much true. There are elites in this world who are actively allied with demonic intelligence because demons are way smarter than us. And I think they are willing to offer this intelligence to human agents in order to bring the human race to perdition. I think that's b. And I think. I think some of the results of that could be technology. I think some of it could be power and money and influence or whatever. I. I did a book. I. I edited it by Monsignor George Dillon. The War of the Antichrist with the Church and Christian Civilization, Put out by. By Tan. And I read this during the lockdowns. I just, I just ran upon it in my research. Astoundingly prophetic, written in 1885. It was endorsed by Pope Leo XIII at the time. And so who promulgated the St. Michael Prayer and talked about Freemasonry a lot. And basically the agenda he laid out has been accomplished. It's been accomplished. There's no doubt about it. And there'd be more thoughts on this. But yeah. So, you know, does any of this freak me out? No, I'm. I'm having to detach from my expectations of life that I had when I was a kid and a teenager that I just invest my money and I. I have an endlessly growing stock portfolio. And you go to college and you do your degree and you buy a house. I'm in California. I don't know if I'll ever have a house, you know, but, like, there's just so many expectations I had about our country that I just don't have anymore. And giving that up has been painful. I think it's been painful for a lot of us, but it's like. But then when I give it up, it's like, oh, there's actually this better thing called Jesus. [01:06:51] Speaker A: So, yeah, it's an interesting thing because my first grandchild was born last year. Congrats. Thank you. I just saw him actually last weekend. It was. It was awesome. [01:07:02] Speaker B: And now you're not just the daddy of trad Catholics, you're the granddaddy of cat of trad. That's right. [01:07:08] Speaker A: Exactly. I'm the granddad. I got the gray beards to prove it. So. But, like, it's very difficult for me. And I admit this. This is not a rational argument, but it's. It's an emotional argument. But I just simply. I look at him and I don't want any of this to be true. I mean, I know there's evil in the world. I know things are not good. And there's part of me that just says, I don't want my grandson to be growing up and, you know, come to adulthood when all of a sudden the Antichrist comes, because I know how horrible that's. That's going to be. So. And there is a balance here also of prudence. Like, as a husband, father, I'm responsible for taking care of my wife, taking care of my kids. And so I have to plan ahead. I have to, you know, I have to save money. I have to, you know, make sure. Because I do, too. [01:07:56] Speaker B: I have a good saving. So I'm with you on that. We have. [01:07:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:59] Speaker B: I mean, right? [01:07:59] Speaker A: You got to do. Yeah. But there is a point where there's no question also in our world, we overemphasize that way too much. Like, I remember. I still remember when I was. When my oldest was probably maybe about eight or nine, I was just stressed out about paying for her college and my other. And I had four kids at this point and, you know, like, paying for the college. And I remember I was going to spiritual direction at the time and the priest and I'm telling him like about, like basically it's really losing my peace over it. And, and he was funny because he was this very gentle young priest and always very compassionate thing, but he just, he was just like, eric, you gotta get over it. I'm like, he's like, that's just not even like, basically he just, almost like, he just, he just shot me down. Like, you're just being stupid, Eric. I mean, he, you know, he didn't quite say that, those words, but he was saying that because it's like that's not your responsibility. Isn't like to, to, you know, if you, if you, if you're blessed, that you can help pay for your kids college, great. But like if you're stressing about it like, so there is this balance between, you know, planning ahead. So even if we think Antichrist may be alive today and you know, maybe coming in our lifetimes, or at least in your lifetime because you're younger, there's still the prudence of. I still gotta, I still gotta pay the bills today. I still got, I gotta make sure my kids have, have food on the plate and things like that, so. But I admit that, you know, my personality kind of leans against it, but also emotionally, now that I have a grandson. Yeah. I really just don't want it to be true. Yeah. I want him to grow up in a world where, you know, Catholicism is ascendant and he's like, you know, able to practice the faith. But I know that it's up to God to determine what time we all live in. So this has been good. [01:09:44] Speaker B: I hope you've not heard. And I don't think you have like hysteria, for my part. No, no, not that at all. But there is a sobriety. And I think some of these things are quite objective, you know. [01:09:56] Speaker A: Yeah. If I, I think if I could just kind of sum up my. I think you're saying it's simply that if we look at what the church has taught, what the church fathers have said about this, what Christ has said, there are certain signs, certain things that will happen that will, that will be the things that happen when the Antichrist comes that will lead up to it. We don't. Maybe that takes 10 years, maybe it takes a century. We're not saying time frame, but just these things. And that you're saying when you look around at the world, particularly in the last, let's say, hundreds of years or so, a lot of the check boxes seem to be being checked. [01:10:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:36] Speaker A: Whether or not That's a type of the eventual one or it's the actual one. [01:10:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:41] Speaker A: At the very least we see a lot of chess pieces being moved into place that it could happen. It would not, it would not be shocking if it did happen in the next, in the next century. [01:10:53] Speaker B: Let's just say I have to get to another meeting. But I'll. Yeah, I'll sum up a bunch of things I don't think are coincidence. Coincidence that I think there's some connection, but of course I can't flesh out at all. I don't think it's coincidence that we have the fall of the Eastern and Western emperors, the fall of Christendom, the, The acquiescence in that fall by the laying aside of the tiara, the de facto evisceration of the church's liturgy, the re. Establishment of Jewish sovereignty in Jerusalem, the invention of the atom bomb, the ufo, UAP phenomenon, the bringing of the public sacrifice of the Mass to an end basically globally for multiple months. I don't think all these are coincidence and I think, I think they are. They are potentially. Some of them are absolutely connected. Some of them a little more speculative. But, but yeah, I, I think in the grand scale of history, a lot of these are very. Yeah, yeah. AI, I was gonna say. [01:11:47] Speaker A: And technology that would allow an Antichrist to have more power than ever thought possible in the past. [01:11:53] Speaker B: And by the way, I use AI Never for writing. I'm very, very much against it for writing because I think writing is thinking and to the extent people use it for that, it's, it can be dangerous. But I use it for research. Like if I have a Church Father quote I can't find the source for. It's actually been helpful with stuff like that. So I'm not totally against AI, but I do recognize that the stated intentions of its creators are satanic. It's, it's, it's Tower of Babel type stuff. [01:12:18] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. So, okay, well, I think we'll wrap up on that cheery note. But no, I'm gonna. [01:12:25] Speaker B: Jesus wins. Jesus wins. [01:12:27] Speaker A: That's. [01:12:27] Speaker B: The truth is the Church Triumphant is never bigger than it's been right now. [01:12:31] Speaker A: The, the stopping point is not the Antichrist. There's. Something comes after that and that's, that's the good news. So, yeah, I'm gonna put a link in for your, your, your great apostle Eternal Christendom. Also, I did find the page where you have the, the quote archive of the end times. I thought that was very useful. I'll make sure I put an explicit link to that, but check out Joshua's work. It's awesome. You know, your podcast, your. Your website, you know, on X, you're just your. Your voice of reason. I make one small pitch, but. Yeah, go ahead. [01:13:03] Speaker B: Yeah, not voiceover. [01:13:03] Speaker A: Sorry about that. [01:13:04] Speaker B: I did a voice of reason. Yeah. [01:13:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:13:07] Speaker B: My quick pitch is we're, we're trying to get to the point where monthly patrons cover all of our, our costs. So if basically 2, 000 Catholics help us with $10 a month, we're covered. And we've got a whole. We've got a big strategic plan. Check out our website. We're going to be laying it out more, but if people are willing to do that, they can do more. Great. But go to eternalchristom.com it's tax deductible. Become a patron on the top. Right. And we would really appreciate it. We're. We're trying to create these resources so that people like you, apologists, evangelist priests, will have incredible resources at their disposal for evangelism. [01:13:37] Speaker A: Yeah, sounds great. Yep. Support Joshua's work and God bless you. This is great. [01:13:42] Speaker B: This has been great. I think this is an important conversation and. Yeah, well, we can keep having it to the extent it would be helpful, so. [01:13:49] Speaker A: Right, Exactly. Okay. Thank you very much. Yep. Till next time, everybody. God love you.