Sacking Sacred Heart Seminary

[00:00:12] The firings of three well respected professors at Sacred Heart Seminary in Detroit has sent shockwaves throughout the church in America. Why did they happen and what does it mean for the future of the church in America? That's what we're going to talk about today on Crisis Point Home. Eric Sammons, your host editor chief of Crisis magazine. [00:00:30] I want to encourage you to smash that like button like the Archbishop of Detroit seems to be smashing Catholicism. I want you to subscribe the channel, let other people know about what we're doing here. I always appreciate it when you do subscribe and like you know what to do. Also, you can follow us on social media at Crisis Mag. Go to our website to subscribe to our newsletter or email newsletter. Just go to crisismagazine.com put your email address and we'll send you an email each day. I do want to note that we are experiencing website problems and have been for about a week or so. [00:01:03] The website was slow and then we put in some checks to try to help it. Those are temporary. I know that and I apologize. Always, always frustrating when you have technical problems. When you're a website, your whole business is a website. You have technical problems. These things do happen sometimes though. Our tech people are on it and hopefully by next week I'm hoping everything will be completely smooth again. But for those who have experienced some difficulties with the website, my apologies. Also a reminder, this is our, our weekly live podcast. So if you're watching this live, feel free to join the chat and I'll address any questions or comments you might have at the end. I appreciate when people join the Tuesday live chat. [00:01:48] Okay, so let's talk about this news story, which has been a big deal and I think it is a big deal. I wrote about it at Crisis last week in an Editor's desk column. And I want to talk about some more though, because I do think it's, it's significant, it's significant action. [00:02:04] So first of all, let's be clear, that's kind of set the table. Sacred Heart Seminary is a seminary of the Archdiocese of Detroit. [00:02:12] It has, it has a reputation. It has a reputation for years now of being one of the most orthodox and one of seminaries in the country. [00:02:21] I mean, I don't think that's really a controversial statement on my, on my part. [00:02:27] And so, and it's been like this for a very long time. And right now, according to the information I found about 13 different dioceses, including six of the seven diocese in Michigan, as well as three religious communities send their seminarians to Sacred Heart Seminary. Now, I want to make sure that people understand that the way it kind of works in the Catholic Church is any diocese can have a seminary of their own, but most dioceses don't, especially smaller ones don't, simply because it costs a lot of money to run a seminary. [00:03:04] So often what happens is the larger diocese, like a Detroit, a Chicago, perhaps a Washington, D.C. a Cincinnati, something like that, they have their own seminaries, and in other dioceses send their seminarians to that diocese, to that diocesan seminary, but it's still under the auspices of the archdiocese or diocese in which it resides. [00:03:31] And so even though multiple diocese send their seminarians to Sacred Heart Seminary in Detroit, ultimately it's run by the Archdiocese of Detroit and it's under the archbishop of Detroit and the other bishops. I'm sure they have some input in how the seminaries run. They probably have suggestions, things like that. But the bucks does stop with the archbishop of the diocese in which the seminary resides. [00:04:02] So in this case, Sacred Heart Seminary, outstanding reputation, known for its orthodoxy, known for just producing, you know, a great crop of priests. [00:04:15] Last week, the, the new archbishop of Detroit, Archbishop Weisenberger, who got there, was installed in, in March. Before that, he was the bishop of Tucson, I think it was. [00:04:28] He fired without any warning, without any advance notice. He fired three professors. [00:04:35] All three of them are very well respected, known to be orthodox. [00:04:40] None of them have any scandals associated with them. There's been no accusations against them or anything of that nature. [00:04:48] But all three of them were basically given the pink slip. Again, without warning, without any, or without explanation. [00:04:56] And so the three professors, two of them actually have been on this podcast, maybe that worked against them, I guess. [00:05:03] But three professors are. Ralph Martin. [00:05:06] Now, he's the most well known. He is a giant in the charismatic Catholic community in this country. In fact, he's just a giant in the Catholic community in America because he has done so much over the years and he's generally well regarded by everybody. Although he's a charismatic, like, everybody loves him. I, I honestly don't know anybody. I mean, the, the, the, the progressives, the, the, the heretics, they don't like him. But like trads love Ralph Martin. Conservative Catholics love Ralph Martin. [00:05:41] Charismatic Catholics love Martin. And they should, because Ralph Martin is awesome. [00:05:46] I mean, I don't agree with all his takes on everything. Obviously, I'm not a charismatic Catholic. I think there's some issues with charismatic Catholicism. At the same time, it doesn't take away from the fact that Ralph Martin is a sincere Catholic who loves the Lord and has done more work for the Lord than all of us combined. [00:06:06] He also is, I mean, he was. He's taught at the seminary for 23 years. [00:06:12] 23 years he's been there. [00:06:15] And he was appointed by Pope Benedict as a consultor to the Pontifical Council for Promotion of the New Evangelization. And he served in that capacity, I believe, for five years from like 2011, 2016. [00:06:27] So this is a, this is a big wig in the church. I mean, this isn't like just some random person or some online trad or something like that. This is a. Well, like I said, well respected. I'll use that word probably many times because it just is true about all these men. [00:06:44] And Ralph Martin deserves the respect that he gets. [00:06:47] And, you know, and so like I said, he's been here for 23 years. [00:06:51] He, he founded, I believe, his Renewal or his president of Renewal Ministries, which is charismac organization. [00:06:58] And he's very solid on many things. He's particularly very good on the issue of the salvation or potential salvation of non Catholics. He and I very kind of bonded over that because he wrote a book about. And I wrote a book about it. [00:07:13] He wrote a book of Will Many Be Saved, I think it was called. And I wrote a book called Deadly Indifference. And they, they came at from different angles and definitely different books. [00:07:23] I recommend both of them. But like, at the same time, it was a common idea. We had common thoughts about the idea that all of a sudden now Catholics are just saying, oh, everybody's saved. Doesn't matter if you're Catholic or not. [00:07:36] And so Ralph Martin is the first one. He was fired. [00:07:40] Second was Eduardo Echeverria, who has been a guest on this podcast at least two times. And I think he's written for us as well. [00:07:48] He's taught at the seminary for 22 years, so not quite as long. One year less than Ralph Martin. He's the author of many books. He's. He's a deep scholar, highly intelligent, good man. [00:08:01] And like, it's. It's interesting because like, he and I, we don't see eye to eye completely on everything. [00:08:08] But that's okay because he's very intelligent. He's very thoughtful. He is. [00:08:14] He. He's faithful to the church, he's faithful to Jesus Christ. [00:08:19] And the truth is he's a little bit more pro. He was more pro Pope Francis, for example. He wrote a whole book on Pope Francis that was generally positive about Pope Francis. [00:08:30] And he also. He's more ecumenical than I am. He's more. I should Say, you know, he's more promoting a defender of the ecumenical movement than I am. [00:08:41] But he's a great guy and like I said, very intelligent, a scholar, a good man and. And very faithful. The third, and he was fired. The third man who was fired, professor fired, is Edward Peters, who has taught there for 20 years. So all three of these men have taught there for at least 20 years. These aren't guys like, who just got there and, you know, they're cutting, you know, let's get rid of the newcomers or anything like that. He's there for 20 years now. Ed Peters, he has not been on the podcast, unfortunately. That's probably my fault for not inviting him. [00:09:16] He is the preeminent canon lawyer in America. I don't think there's any debate about that. He was an advisor to the Apostolics. I'm going to mispronounce this Signatura, I think that's how you pronounce it, which is basically the Holy See's highest administrative tribunal. [00:09:33] And Pope Benedict, I believe it was assigned him to, appointed him to that. And. And he was the first layman appointed that in over 100 years. And I think the first American as well, I guess. First American layman first. I think he was just the first layman because obviously Cardinal Burke was part of it. But the point is, is that Ed Peters is highly respected. I'll say it again, well respected and just a phenomenal canon lawyer. And just, you know, gives very. [00:10:05] He's what you would want a canon lawyer to be. When he looks at a situation, he analyzes it from canon law perspective and tries to get, you know, be fair and honest about what's going on. [00:10:18] So Ed Peters also fired. So these three men, all well known, you know, in the Catholic community at least, you know, people who kind of follow these things, were all fired. And so the question becomes, why were they fired? [00:10:32] There's got to be a commonality between them, like between the three that made it so that they were all fired on the same day, by the way. They're all just, you know, I was going to use a phrase which is not appropriate in a family podcast, so I will not use that. But they were all fired last Wednesday. [00:10:50] And what's the commonality? [00:10:52] Ultimately, it's pretty obvious. All three of them criticized Pope Francis during his pontificate. [00:11:01] That's the commonality between the three, other than the fact they're well respected, they're orthodox, they're professors, great professors, all that stuff. But the only thing that you can. You can glean from this is that they were fired because they all had criticized Pope Francis in the past. Now let me be clear about what I mean by that. They did not attack Pope Francis in any way, shape or form. They, they criticize him in very measured tones and they were willing to praise him at other times, especially Dr. Echeveria. [00:11:32] They're not severe critics by any rational measure. They're not like me. [00:11:39] They're not like Taylor Marshall. They're not like, you know, take the, take them radest of trads. They're not like that. Take the, the most mild of trads even. And they're not like that. I mean, I've been far more critical than they have of Pope Francis, you know, and they've always been very, I mean they're professors for goodness sake, as seminaries. They're not going to go half cocked like I might. [00:12:01] They're just going to simply lay out what they, if they think something is being presented as false, they're going to lay it out. And they're, they're very, they're also very, if you look at their work, they were very quick not to say, oh, Pope Francis is a heretic or anything like that. They would just simply say what he said could be interpreted in a way that could be, that could encourage heresy or what he said isn't really consistent with other popes have said on this issue or something like that. It's always been very mild and measured their criticisms. And like I said, not one of those three is a tread. I don't think any of them attend the traditional at Mass on any, with any regularity. I'm not as sure about Ed Peters. I don't think he does. I know Ralph Martin doesn't. I mean he's a charismatic and I'm pretty, I'm pretty sure that Eduardo Echeveria doesn't either. None of them are, are, are haters of the Latin Mass, but none of the three are trads by any definition of that. So we're not talking about like, oh, you had some rad trad infiltration into this seminary. We have to purge them. No, it was simply because that they were and this is like, I will admit this is speculation. This is the reason because that's the thing. Archbishop Weisenberger did not actually give any reasons even to them. [00:13:20] And so who is this Archbishop Weisenberger? [00:13:24] What's happening here? Now? First of all, I should set the tone that Detroit was actually one of the best archdiocese in the country, particularly when it comes to traditional Catholicism. It probably had the most lively and vibrant, to use the term that the Novus Ordo people love to use, vibrant traditional Latin Mass communities in the country. And it wasn't just one community. That's the thing. They had Latin Masses at many parishes throughout the archdiocese. I visited and spoke at a number of parishes. I think it was two years ago now in the Archdiocese of Detroit under their old bishop. And I just found it was amazing. I mean, I was somewhat flabbergasted how strong their Latin Mass communities were up there. And they were very much integrated in the life of the archdiocese. It wasn't like the, the stereotype of, oh, it's those trads out in the middle of nowhere, you know, in, in this one parish that are like, they want nothing to do with everybody else or standoffish. No, it really seemed to me that the traditional at Mass communities were very much part of the archdiocese and the archbishop considered him as such. [00:14:33] But then they got a new archbishop, and that was Archbishop Weisenberger. He was installed in March. So that's something that I think is important to note. He has been there for. [00:14:45] How many months is that? [00:14:47] Less than five months now? [00:14:50] He has been there less than five months and already he has tried to eradicate the traditional at Mass in his diocese. He's basically restricted it greatly to just I think one or two parishes. I can't remember the exact details, but he's basically eliminated most places it was. [00:15:07] And now he's firing well respected orthodox professors at his seminary. Now, here's the thing. People always say, like, you hear it among, especially amongst, like, prudent Catholics who are orthodox, conservative. [00:15:23] They will say, like, for example, a priest, when he gets to a parish, he shouldn't really make any major changes for at least a year. Why? Because he gets to. He needs to get to know the community. He needs to understand kind of the people and understand, okay, what's the best way forward? [00:15:37] And the same is true of a bishop. When a bishop gets to a diocese, he shouldn't, like, make major changes very quickly. And I know sometimes this frustrates more conservative, more orthodox, more traditional Catholics because we want them to clean house. Because often it's just a mess. [00:15:54] But there is prudence in that. Just simply getting to know the community, knowing them will allow you to better understand the best way forward. [00:16:05] Even if you know you're going to do certain things, you wait a bit. Just because you need to build up trust, you need to build up a sense of understanding, an ability to, to make the decisions and say the Right things when you make those decisions. [00:16:20] Well, Archbishop Weisenberger threw all that out the window because essentially, like I said, he's been there less than five months. He's already shut down most of church masses. He's fired three seminary, seminary professors, by the way. He fired them a month before seminary starts, a new school season starts. [00:16:38] So, like, did they have, I assume they already probably had classes. I don't know this for a fact, but I would assume they already had classes assigned to them and, you know, a schedule up and all that. [00:16:50] And so, like, he basically just didn't even care about that. [00:16:53] And so it's. It's unbelievable to me how out of line this archbishop is. [00:17:01] And not just out of line, but I'll just say it. He's a coward. [00:17:06] I believe I would. I will argue that Archbishop Weisenberg is a coward. I don't want to just throw that out there about a successor to the apostles, but it just seems that's the reality. And why do I say that? Because of the no warning, no explanation. [00:17:21] A real man would just tell them, listen, I don't like what you said about Francis, and I don't want professors at my university, at my seminary who speak like that. So you're gone. [00:17:32] Or a real man, actually, what he would do is he would bring them in and say, listen, I'm new here. [00:17:39] I want Sacred Heart Seminary to be run a certain way. I've seen some things you've said in the past, and I want to talk to you about that. I, I don't really like when you said this. And he would give specific examples. I don't like that you said this. What did you mean by that? And then the, the professor could respond, say, well, here's what I meant by that. [00:17:57] Your, Your Excellency. [00:17:59] And then they could have a discussion. They could. A true dialogue. I mean, listen, I thought that's what we're all about in the Catholic Church. I thought dialogue is the most important thing for. For Catholics do. Is to engage in dialogue. Where was the dialogue, Your Excellency? [00:18:15] Why didn't you bring these professors in and talk to them, find out where they're coming from? Maybe you would have ended up doing the same thing and saying, well, I just can't have you at my seminary with those, Those beliefs. [00:18:26] But at the very least, you give them a fair shake and you. And you find out exactly if they, if you are interpreting them correctly, maybe they misspoke and maybe they kind of would say, no. Honestly, I wish I hadn't said that and I would. I will publicly disavow what I said in the past about that. You don't know. You never asked them. You never dialogue with them. Instead, he just literally brings them into his office and says, you're gone. [00:18:51] And then when Ralph Martin. This is the only one we know any details about, because both Dr. Echeveria and Dr. Peters have not said anything about theirs other than the fact that, yes, they've confirmed, yes, they were fired, and yes, they were given no reason, but they haven't said exactly the details. [00:19:05] Here's what Ralph Martin said when I asked him for, meaning, Archbishop Weisenberger, for an explanation. [00:19:12] He said he didn't think it would be helpful to give any specifics, but mentioned something about having concerns about my theological perspectives. What do you mean it wouldn't be helpful to give the specifics? Be a man. You're firing somebody. Tell them why I've had to let people go in my career and if it's for a specific cause, firing, I will tell them, here's why you're getting fired. If they're let go because we're having financial problems, I'll tell them that reason. I'll say, listen, we don't want to let you go, but we didn't have enough money or whatever the case may be. But tell them to their face, say, listen, I don't like that you said this. I don't want professors at my seminary to say things like that again. I think the better thing would be to first talk to them and find out what they really believe and think, because it's so true anymore. And we see this time and time again, somebody will say something online, and then all of a sudden, by the next day, it's morphed into something completely different from what they meant beyond what they think, and just really even contrary at times to what they think and what they said. And so that's why you would talk to them first and find out what exactly they meant. [00:20:23] And so this was a cowardly act, but honestly, it was par for the course for progressives. This is how progressives work. They show no mercy. They show no desire for dialogue. They are simply control freaks. [00:20:42] And that's what this looks like to me. It looks like this is just Archbishop Weisenberg being control freak. He didn't like the fact that he had some seminary professors under him who said some things that he didn't really like. Now, what was funny is, I think it was National Catholic Register had reported that Archbishop Weislingberger, when Pope Francis died I think it was. Was saying, like, oh, yeah, I know some people don't like him, but that's okay. We can all like, you know, we're part of the Catholic Church. And Pope Francis wouldn't understood that some people wouldn't like him. And I do, too. Obviously, that might not be the case, but the fact is, like, another point of the way this came down, you see progressive Catholics all the time talking about Catholic social teaching, and they will complain about the fact that, you know, big business doesn't treat the worker properly, they don't pay him a fair wage, and they don't, like, they'll fire them just for profits and things like that. [00:21:36] Yet I will say, as somebody who worked for a diocese for five years and knows many people who've worked for parishes and diocese, there's probably no institution that violates supposed Catholic social teaching more than the Catholic Church when it comes to how they treat their workers. [00:21:53] I think you'll find a lot of people who've worked for parishes or diocese who would agree with me. Now, I will say in my own job that I worked for a diocese. [00:22:04] That's not what happened to me and nothing like that. I'm not saying that. But I saw a lot of people where they were paid a very low wage under a quote, unquote, living wage, and they were fired, often just for no reason whatsoever. Just very willy nilly. Like, don't get me wrong, I understand in American law, if you're an at will employee, you have a right to leave anytime you want, and the employer has a right to get rid of you anytime he wants. I'm not disputing that. What I'm talking about, though, is the, the highfalutin language of Catholic, particularly Catholic progressives about Catholic social teaching, teaching workers properly and treating workers properly. [00:22:45] And yet what we see is when push comes to, when push comes to shove, this progressive Catholic Archbishop Weisenberger, he just simply cans three, three men that he just doesn't like giving them no reason, no warning or anything. [00:23:03] And so these are men, remember, I mean, they have families. They, you know, their fathers. I think all three of them are. [00:23:10] I mean, I don't know their financial situations, any of them, but, like, it's clearly a violation of at least a spirit of Catholic social teaching, if not the letter of Catholic social teaching. [00:23:25] Another thing I just want to note is Archbishop Weisenberger was obviously a Francis appointee. [00:23:35] And I found when it came to Francis appointees, most of them weren't great, some of them were decent, but there were like categories. [00:23:45] Some were like just people who, you know, peripheries and you just kind of like their story, whatever. [00:23:53] Some were actually decent that snuck in there. But a lot of them particularly, there was a segment of them, I should say particularly United States, that were clearly ideological appointees. Somebody like a Cardinal McElroy that was an ideological semi appointee, somebody that Francis knew would toe the line of the Francis ideology and destroy any remnants of Catholic tradition and Catholic orthodoxy, destroy vocations. I'm not saying even that that's what Francis was thinking when he thought, but that's the result of his ideology would be that, well, Weisenberger is clearly one of those people. He was sent to Detroit to destroy what had been built up there. There's no question about it. Now you might think, well, a month after Weisenberger gets installed, the Pope dies, there's a new Pope. You would think that maybe he would hold back on doing anything too radical until he gets, you know, you know, check the wind and see what's, what's it like coming out of the Vatican these days from Pope Leo. But he doesn't even bother with that. He was sent there for a job by Pope Francis and gosh darn it, he's going to, he's going to fill out that job. He's going to do what he's been told to do, which is basically destroy tradition. [00:25:05] Any old fashioned pre Vatican II remnants, any, any challenge to the ideal, the Francis ideology, he will do everything he can to destroy it. And that's clearly what's happening. [00:25:18] I mean, I, I called him in my article last week, my column, I call him a petty tyrant. Some people might think that's kind of weird. How can somebody be petty and a tyrant? But most tyrants are petty. What I mean by that is they don't brook any opposition on even the smallest of matters. [00:25:35] So unless you are 100% lockstep with what he wants, you will, you are an enemy that needs to be destroyed. And that's what's happening here. Now, some, I've noticed had the objection. Well, the bishop has the authority over a seminary. [00:25:52] He can do whatever he wants. [00:25:54] You're like missing the whole point. [00:25:58] You've lost the narrative if you're saying that. I'm sorry. It's not a matter of. [00:26:03] Well, first I want to say bishops don't have as much authority as you think they do if you say that. [00:26:10] Because one thing I found when working for a diocese is that, you know, under canon law, workers for the church, particularly priests, but work force have certain rights. They have the ability to appeal things. They have to be treated in a certain way. [00:26:24] Now, I'm not saying that what he did necessarily violate can law. That's for, you know, I think Ed Peters has mentioned he's retained counsel, and so maybe we'll find out if he had the authority. But even if you argue he has this authority, and I do admit that bishops have a great deal of authority in their diocese, it doesn't mean just because he has authority that it's right and just that he does something like this. [00:26:49] If a bishop took a priest and reassigned him to a new parish every week, are you going to say, well, he has the authority to do that. If he wants to do that, he can do that? What are you complaining about? [00:27:01] No, that's not the point. The point is it's an abuse of his powers. It's a stupid decision. [00:27:07] And so even if you want to argue that Archbishop Weisenberger has the authority to remove those three seminary professors, which perhaps he does, I probably assume he does. Doesn't mean he should. It doesn't mean we shouldn't have a outcry when he does it. [00:27:28] I mean, that's the thing. It's like when a bishop abuses their authority, it's not saying they don't have the authority, it's saying they're abusing it. I mean, obviously. [00:27:39] And so I think that's just an objection where you're missing the entire point of the discussion. [00:27:46] Another thing I've heard mostly from the crazy Catholic crowd, which is that, you know, accusations that, you know, basically they're. They were dissenting from church teaching, they were attacking Pope Francis. [00:27:59] They were basically promoting heresies. They were heretics. And obviously you wouldn't want those type of people teaching at your seminary. [00:28:07] Well, obviously that's just a stupid statement and it's almost not worth responding to. I only bring it up because you see it prominently at certain websites. [00:28:19] That's only true if your version of Catholicism is nothing like actual Catholicism. [00:28:28] If you think that as a Catholic you're required to be in lockstep with every single statement and opinion ever made by a pope, or at least by the current pope, then obviously, yeah, you're a heretic for daring to ever even make even the slightest criticism. But that's not Catholicism, people. [00:28:46] Yes, I understand. Warping Lumen Gentium 22, I think it is, where it talks about we have a submission of mind and will to the supreme pontiff I've talked about in the past. I'm not going to go into details of that. That does not mean, though, that if you believe a Pope has taught something, has said something that is contrary to what previous popes have said. Because after all, if we have religious submission of mind will to the Pope, doesn't that mean all the popes? [00:29:15] If it does, what happens if two popes contradict each other? Obviously that has to be resolved because it has happened in the past. [00:29:22] And so the idea that we're like these professors are somehow dissenters or heretics because they were willing to make some mild and measured criticisms of Pope Francis is just ridiculous. [00:29:39] One of the things that is particularly sad about this whole situation is it probably is a harbinger of the fact that a once great seminary will soon fall into disrepute. I mean, Sacred Heart Seminary, like I said, has a great reputation and it's a well earned, well deserved reputation as being a great seminary. I actually know a few people who have studied there. I know some of the professors there. It just, it's, it's very solid. [00:30:06] Yet if this is what happens, this sends a, this is a message, this is sending a message. There's no question about it. If these three men get fired, what happens? Number one, no good orthodox professor is going to want to teach there. So the, the applications there are going to dry of quality, men and women are going to dry up, number one. [00:30:31] Number two, the professors there who are good will, well, two things will happen to them. One is they will likely feel like they can't say. They'll be very scared about what they say. And so that sends like a, it has, creates an atmosphere of distrust, immediate distrust. And number two, they might start looking for another job because they realize, listen, if I can get fired tomorrow for no reason, with no explanation, with no warning, I better be brushing up my resume. I better be looking to perhaps go somewhere else. So you lose those good professors, so not only can you not hire new good professors, you lose some good professors as well. And Exodus will begin. And then finally, I think solid bishops, at least in solid religious orders, will say, maybe I shouldn't send my men to this seminary. If this is the way they're going to treat their professors, if this is what they think of Orthodoxy, I'm going to look elsewhere. And so I really think this is. Unless something radical changes, I think it's obvious that Sacred Heart Seminary is going to start a decline. [00:31:44] It's going to just become like a lot of the subpar seminaries we have in our country. Seminaries have gotten better since like the 1990s, for example. [00:31:54] But they're still not great. Let's not be under any illusions here. Some are better than others. [00:32:00] You know, like I said, the Sacred Heart's one of the best, but it really is a decline. And I would just say that we need to pray for the seminary professors who are there. [00:32:10] I don't know, you know, any inside information, but I can't imagine they're happy, even if they weren't big fans of Martin Echeveria and Peters. [00:32:21] Like I said, you just know tomorrow you could wake up and you could get fired. [00:32:26] That's not an environment that most people want to live for no reason, with no explanation. [00:32:31] So I think that's something we should be praying about. Pray for the seminarians, obviously. Pray and fast for Archbishop Weisenberger as well. That he would have a change of heart and embrace the Catholic faith more fully instead of being just an ideological progressive. [00:32:48] Finally, I want to bring up something. I saw a number of places. What about Pope Leo in all this? Obviously, Pope Leo grew up not that far from Detroit, in Chicago. [00:32:57] He was an American bishop. He's clearly somewhat aware of the American scene, although maybe less so than many, because he didn't live in America, you know, during his. His episcopacy and priesthood, as much as a regular American bishop would. [00:33:13] So is he going to respond? I've already seen people complaining that he hasn't done something about this, or at least about the traditional Latin masses being shut down. Well, first, I would say this. [00:33:23] It is very rare and be very uncharacteristic for any pope, no matter who they are, to step in and do something about a bishop, a bishop's employment decisions at his seminary. That's just very unlikely to happen. [00:33:42] And so I don't think anything will happen directly because of this, and I don't. And that's not a Pope Leo thing. I don't think any pope, I mean, Pope Francis might have if somebody hired too many orthodox people. But like, generally speaking, Pope Benedict, Pope John Paul ii, Pope Paul, you know, who. Going back, even going back much longer than this, before Vatican ii, popes just don't get involved in that. And they shouldn't, let's be honest, Pope should not get involved in the hiring, firing decisions of a local seminary. That's just not the way things should work. They have a universal church to run. They can't get into the minutia. And as much as a big deal as I'm making it, as much as a big deal, we see it in the grand scheme of the universal Church, it is somewhat minutia, and I apologize. Doctors Martin Echeveria and Peters, I don't think you're minutiae. I think you're very. You're awesome and have been treated unjustly. But, you know, in the grand scheme of things, it's not that big of a deal, unfortunately. [00:34:40] And so, like, should Pope Lee. I mean, okay, let me be honest. I would love it if Pope Leo tomorrow said, listen, you can't shut down Latin mass parishes anymore. You gotta. You gotta bring them back in Detroit and wherever. That would be great. Obviously, I think that would be awesome. But I just know that that's not gonna happen with anybody who was elected at the last conclave. I don't care who you got, none of them would be doing that like, this soon. Remember, he's been Pope for literally two months now. [00:35:09] He's not going to jump in and do things like that. What I'm hoping and praying for is that the, you know, we play the long game here. What I mean by that is that Pope Leo's appointments to diocese, his episcopal appointments of new bishops, that they're better than Pope Francis is. [00:35:30] And overall, I'm not saying a single one's not going to be bad or anything like that. I mean, frankly, I'm hoping they're better than John Paul II's. Remember, John Paul II had terrible episcopal appointments often. [00:35:43] Benedict, of the last three popes before Leo, Benedict had the best appointments. [00:35:48] Even he had some howlers. I mean, they all do. So, like, if Pope Leo tomorrow appoints some bishop that I think is terrible, I'm not going to be like, oh, this shows Francis 2.0 that blah, blah, blah. I'm going say, let's be patient and wait and see what is the overall character of his episcopal appointments. And what I'm hoping is over time, that makes a difference. And frankly, it's not fun because we still have to deal with Archbishop Weisenberger, people like him and Cardinal McElroy and people like that. [00:36:22] But in Catholicism, we don't think in minutes or months or weeks or even years. We think in centuries. [00:36:29] And so the fact is we might. We're probably gonna have to endure the consequences of the Francis pontificate for very long. Leo, even if he wanted to. And I do think Leo is better than Francis, but probably aligned with him in a lot of ways. [00:36:43] He's not gonna. [00:36:45] I don't care if it was Cardinal Seurat who was elected, he wouldn't have cleaned things up in two Months. So relax people and give him a chance. [00:36:54] Let him cook, as the young people say. [00:36:57] Okay? So I just think like I'm not gonna point any fingers at Pope Leo at this point, at this point as some major deal. [00:37:06] You know, like he's like, like because he hasn't done something about this, I don't think he will do anything about the Sacred Heart Seminary situation. And I think it'll take time before we see what, what he's going to do about the Latin Mass situation. I hear there was a Latin Mass approved in Texas. I think I only saw a headline about that on the details. [00:37:21] So, you know, hopefully good things will be coming on in that. Okay, let me look at the live chat here. And like I said, I always appreciate that Benedicte says this is just my conspiracy thoughts, but I think Sacred Heart Seminary is about to go bankrupt. Poor Mr. Ralph may have been too expensive to keep around. You know, I did think of that, that it was three men who have been there for over 20 years. And the way it works in most organizations, the longer you're there, the more you get paid because you get at least cost of living raises over time. And so you're going to get paid more than a brand new professor. And so I don't wonder, I don't. I wouldn't be surprised if money had something to do with this. Now, to my knowledge, there's no indication that Sacred Heart Seminary had any financial problems. In fact, I would be a little surprised if they were simply because they were such a solid seminary. But maybe there are. Diocese of Detroit has. And so they're just cutting costs here. Maybe they plan and so. And these three were the easiest to fire because the fact that they criticized Pope Francis. So it's not like one or the other. [00:38:22] It could be they had some financial situations and these three professors being there for a very long time were paid more than a new professor would get paid. [00:38:31] And so you could, you know, use this as an excuse as well. [00:38:35] Okay, August TV123 says the thing that really irritates me are the left cat so called journalists slandering these guys as heretics, schismatics, etc. It really is something that is unfortunate. It's sad, it's diabolical. [00:38:49] I mean, these are men with families and just who have committed themselves to serving the church for years now. And they're kicked to the curb and you're cheering it on. I mean, give me a break. I mean there is absolutely no compassion, no Catholic charity in your heart. And I mean people you know, like Mike Lewis and. And Everve. What's his name? Austin Everve. People like that who are cheering this on. [00:39:16] I mean, long ago, you stopped being, you know, having any charity in your heart. And I'm sorry, you're just cult members, ideological cult members who put your. Your cult above people. And that's just the reality. [00:39:29] Okay. T.K. o' Rourke says it's like the bishop wants us to become a character of what Protestants accuse us of worshipers of the Pope accepting him as some sort of oracle with no hint of questioning or criticism. You know, I've brought this up before, TK I'm glad you brought up as well. [00:39:43] I remember, as a Protestant, talking to Catholic apologists, and my accusations were all, you guys are just cult members. You worship the. You know, you have to do whatever the Pope says. No, no, no. That's just not true. [00:39:54] And when I realized it wasn't true, that was a big barrier overcome to becoming Catholic. [00:40:01] But you have to admit it is true in certain segments of the church. I mean, there's no question there are certain members of the church who do look at it like, we just do whatever the Pope says, and we cannot criticize them for any reason whatsoever. [00:40:17] And so that's sad, because it does feed into the anti Catholic Protestant myths. [00:40:24] Benedicte says. I know of a similar situation in my diocese. They took a priest's retirement funds that had been raised for him by his parishioners. That was two years ago. He sued the diocese. Yeah. I mean, it is just not. [00:40:39] It is just. It is true that there's a lot of mistreatment of employees in the Catholic Church today. [00:40:50] And that's a sad thing. I don't want to say that. I don't want to believe it, but I know it's true. Just. I mean, just how employees are treated. [00:41:02] They're not respected. They're not usually paid a just wage. If you want to argue that. I mean, I have a different view of just wage than what a lot of Catholics might. But even by any stretch of the. Imagine, if you want to be completely like, oh, they have to get paid this great wage to support their families, they're not doing that. But more importantly, they're just not treated with human respect in too many cases. And I just think. I think that's sad. And it's. It's very obvious in this case. Okay, last comment. I got TV. 1, 2, 3. Firing guys in this manner is really effeminate. Yeah. I mean, that's the word I use. It's effeminate. And people just make sure you understand what we mean when we say that. We're not saying feminine. Feminine is beautiful. Feminine is awesome. Feminine is what women are called to be. [00:41:42] Men are called to be masculine. [00:41:45] Effeminate is a distortion of femininity. And usually it's by men. And it basically is you're not being a man and just simply looking in the face and saying, listen, here's what's going on. Here's why I don't like about it. Let me know what you think. Let's have a discussion about it. In the end, I might still fire you, but at least we can have a fair and honest reckoning of what's going on instead. [00:42:10] You're not man enough to just tell the person why you're firing them. You're not man enough to give them at least a chance to explain their side of the situation. You just go in there, you kick in the curb, and then you walk out. Make no statement or anything like that. It just. It really is a effeminate loser energy, as I would call it, so. Which is sad to see. Okay, I'm gonna wrap it up there. I appreciate everybody joining me in the live chat. Like I said, pray again for Archbishop Reisenberger, obviously, and pray for Drs. Martin, Echeveria and Peters, and pray for the other seminarians, the other seminary professors at Sacred Heart, and for the seminary itself. Okay, everybody, until next time, God love you.