President Trump and Pope Leo on Getting to Heaven

[00:00:00] Foreign. [00:00:14] So in the past week, both President Trump and Pope Leo have talked about how to get to heaven, or at least in Trump's case, about how he might get to heaven. I want to compare and contrast what they say, but I'm really going to look at the deeper issues of what is it that we have to do to get to heaven and how faith and works are related to all that. So. Hello. Merrick Samuels, your host and chief of Crisis magazine. Before we get started, as always, I want to ask that you smash that like button, subscribe to the channel, let other people know about what we're doing here. [00:00:46] Also, you can follow us on social media. Rice is mag at all the various social media outlets except TikTok. I don't think we're on TikTok. I don't want to be on TikTok. [00:00:56] And I, I'm gonna stick with that one. Staying off of that. I, I, most social media outlets, I started with, no, I'm not going to be on that. And then eventually I am Tick tock does one that, no, I'm not going to do that. And I don't think Crisis is going to do it. [00:01:08] So if you like your TikTok content, sorry. Also, you can subscribe to our email newsletter. Just go to crisismagazine.com, put in your email address and we will send you our articles in the morning every day. [00:01:21] Okay, so let's get started here. So this all kind of started the idea for this podcast, something that Donald Trump said last week in an interview. So I'm going to go ahead and play it's a short maybe 45 second clip of what Donald Trump says in this and then we'll talk about that. [00:01:46] It okay, so basically what Trump says is that his peacemaking, his desire and his efforts to make peace between nations that might help him to get into heaven. Now, the first thing I want to say is a couple things about this, about just about Donald Trump. [00:02:38] I think as Catholics, we should look at what he said in a positive light. We know Donald Trump is not Catholic. We know by his own admission, by other things we've read and heard that in his life he's done a number of things that are obviously contrary to the gospel. He still does. I mean, he promotes ivf, you know, various things like that. [00:02:57] So as Catholics, we pray for his salvation. We pray for everybody's salvation. We pray for Donald Trump's salvation. [00:03:03] And, you know, the path he's set so far doesn't make it seem likely that he, you know, he's got an inside track to heaven. I'll put it that way. However, the fact that he wants to get to heaven, clearly, the fact that he even recognizes and admits in his Trumpian way that perhaps his chances of getting to heaven aren't that great right now, I think that's a humility that you rarely see. I mean, like I said, Trump says it in his way, but the point is, is that there's a humility there. It's more humble than the evangelical fundamentalist or something who says, I'm assured of my salvation, or the person who thinks that because he's a good person, he's definitely getting to heaven. Trump recognizes there's something he has to do in order to be justified, and I think that's good on the surface. And also, frankly, his desire to. To save lives, to stop the killing, as he puts it, often, and to bring about peace, I think is a good thing. Yes, we can criticize the fact that maybe some of the things he does doesn't actually do that. And of course, his whole relationship with Israel, all that we could criticize. But I think we should at least recognize that there's some good desires there in Trump, and hopefully our prayers and fasting and his own work will bring about his own salvation one day. [00:04:26] Okay, so I want to talk more deeply about this, though, because what happened was, after this, as soon as I saw this quote, I thought, I know exactly what's going to happen on social media. There's going to be an upsurge in Protestants talking about faith alone, and then Catholics talking about, well, no faith and works and things like that, that there's going to be this theological debate about faith and works. And so I want to get more into that today in this podcast, but then also bring in something Pope Leo said that I think needs to be remembered as well. Before I really get into. I'll just kind of summarize it. I summarized it in an ex post. I said, Protestants believe that our works are unrelated to our salvation, which is a heresy. Pelagians believe that our works get us to heaven. All also a heresy. Catholics rightly believe that our works, united with faith in Christ and love for him, are a necessary component of being saved. [00:05:24] So we have this. This balance in the Catholic teaching that we don't find in heretical teachings like Protestantism and Pelagianism. [00:05:33] And so what we really need to do is we need to understand the role of faith and works in our salvation. Can Trump get to heaven simply by being a peacemaker, by his efforts for Peace. [00:05:46] The Catholic answer is no, just like the Protestant answer. There would be no. But do his works have nothing to do with him potentially being saved? The Catholic answer is no. They could have something to do with it, whereas the Protestant would say they have nothing to do with it. So I think the, the. A couple Bible verses. I want to talk about some Bible verses first. Some teachings of Christ and what, what the Church teaches on, on justification, how we can be saved. [00:06:09] So first I think we go straight to Galatians 5, 6, which I think is the key text to talk about. There's other texts, but this one particularly St. Paul writes, for in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love. [00:06:31] There's a couple things to unpack there. I'm not going to go, you know, you should read the whole letter to the Galatians. You read the whole Bible, read all Paul's letters. They're just wonderful. But I'm just going to kind of give a context of this that you can see clearly in this verse. For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail. [00:06:51] This is very important because this is what Paul is talking about when he condemns works that works can save you. He's not talking about things you do. [00:07:02] He's talking about the works of the law, particularly circumcision. [00:07:07] Because the belief was among the Jewish people of his time was that in order to become part of the chosen people, the people of God, you had to be circumcised. That was a work you had to do in order to be saved. [00:07:24] But Paul is saying with the advent of the Messiah, the Messiah of the Jewish people, of the whole world, Christ Jesus, that doesn't matter anymore. It doesn't matter if you're circumcised or uncircumcised. Because remember during this time that Paul's writing is. That's the great debate in the church. [00:07:42] We have to put in that context. The great debate in the first century church was circumcision. Is it necessary, Is it necessary to follow the works of the law, the Mosaic Law, in order to be a faithful Christian? [00:07:55] Some said yes, some said no. The Council of Jerusalem, of course, decided very definitively, but the debate continued even after that. Just like, hey, how about that? A debate continues after a council decides something. That happens all the time in the church. [00:08:08] So first Paul is rejecting the idea of works of the law being of any importance when it comes to salvation. But then he says, but faith working through love. [00:08:22] So clearly here there are works that matter. [00:08:26] He says, you know, what matters is faith working through love. I think that's the key. I mean, I think that's the most succinct way that you can describe justification in a Catholic view is faith working through love. You cannot separate them. [00:08:43] When Martin Luther came around the scene and he was condemning works based on religion, he was talking about faith alone, things like that. He confused his idea of works with Paul's idea of works. They're not the same thing. [00:08:58] What Martin Luther claimed are the works that we that don't help of any avail was not what St. Paul was saying. [00:09:06] And that really is kind of the crux of the problem with Paul's. With Luther's faith alone, sola fidelity. [00:09:14] Elsewhere, St. Paul says explicitly, we work out our salvation with fear and trembling. I forgot to look up the verse. I just know it by heart, but I can't remember where. It's one of his letters, but he talks about, we work out our salvation with fear and trembling. That does not sound like somebody who believes in faith alone. [00:09:31] He's talking about working out our salvation. First of all, it hasn't happened fully yet in St. Paul's view and in the Catholic view, but he needs to work out fear and trembling. [00:09:42] Another classic verse that matters for this discussion of justification, faith alone is James 2:24, where St. James writes, you see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. Just a little fun fact. The phrase faith alone only happens is only found one time in the entire Bible. And this is it, when literally, St. James is saying, we're justified by works, not by faith alone. [00:10:08] Again, James's works here are not the same as Luther's, but they are the same as St. Paul's in other words, he's not talking about. He's not saying man is justified by works of the law of the Mosaic covenant. [00:10:24] He's saying that we are justified, though, through our works, not by faith alone. And if you look at the context, he's not saying faith isn't part of it. Faith is part of the equation, of course, but our works do matter. [00:10:37] And of course, another place that matters that talks about what we must do to be saved. Our justification is when the rich young man comes to Jesus Christ and asks, what must I do to have eternal life? [00:10:55] And what does Jesus say? [00:10:59] He responds, accept me as your personal Lord and Savior, and you're in. [00:11:04] Okay. That's not what he said. That's what you hear, though, at many Evangelical churches. But that's not what Jesus himself said. In fact, what he does is he lists the Commandments. He specifically lists mostly the commandments from the second tablet. Love your neighbor, do not commit adultery on your father, mother, things like that. [00:11:24] That's his first answer. And he leaves it at that. He doesn't then continue. He waits until the rich young man responds. The rich young man says, I've done all these things since my youth. [00:11:34] What else must I do? Because the rich young man realized that wasn't it. And of course Jesus knew that that wasn't it. But that doesn't mean that wasn't part of it. Jesus wouldn't lead with something that was irrelevant to the question. [00:11:49] When he's asked, what must I do to receive eternal life? He wouldn't answer like, oh, you need to make sure you plow the garden each day, and that's irrelevant to whether or not you'll receive eternal life. No, when he talks about the Commandments, they are part of the answer. [00:12:10] But as a good teacher, he doesn't always give all the answer because he wants to lead the man to see it. And then, of course, when Jesus responds, the next time he says, sell all you have, give it to the poor and come follow me. [00:12:20] In other words, give your life completely to me, to Jesus Christ in faith. So we see right there, we have faith in works, but those faith, it's faith working through love, I. E. You give all your things to the poor. It's another work, as Luther would define it. He would define following the commandments as works. He would define the giving away everything to the poor as a work. [00:12:47] Giving to charity is a work. And they have nothing to do with salvation, only faith alone. [00:12:52] But as we see from our Lord Jesus Christ, St. Paul, St. James, no, you cannot separate them. They are bound together. Faith and works are bound together. [00:13:02] And also, of course, Jesus says in the Sermon on the Mount, he talks all the time in the Sermon on the Mount about things you need to do, you need to fast, you need to pray, give alms. And he finishes his Sermon on the Mount by saying, be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect. [00:13:16] There's a real high calling that the Christian has. And I want to mention something in connection when I talk about Pope Leo in a little bit, what he said recently. [00:13:28] But we see this balance, this integration of faith and works in the teachings of the Council of Trent. Of course, that's the great council that addressed the teaching of the Church on justification, because it was counsel in response to the heirs of Protestantism, the heirs of sola fide of faith alone. [00:13:48] And what I find is interesting is how balanced Council of Trent is. [00:13:52] We see in Canon one of. I think the sixth session forgot to write that down. It says, if anyone say says that by faith alone the impious is justified in such wise as to mean that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to. To the obtaining the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way. I'm sorry, I. I started reading the next canon. Let me start over. Canon one, okay. If anyone says that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema. Let me say that again because I screwed up the quote at the beginning, first part. Canon one says, if anyone says that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema. In other words, they start off by condemning the idea, the Pelagianist idea, that you can be saved by your works. So, President Trump, I know you're listening right now. I'm sure you tune in each Tuesday afternoon for the live chat. I'm waiting for you to live broadcast. I'm waiting for you to jump in the chat someday. [00:15:03] You will not be saved. You will not get to heaven simply by being a peacemaker, by your works of being a peacemaker. I'm not saying you shouldn't do that or can't help you. But I'm saying though, that's not how you will be saved. Council of Trent Canon 1 says that very explicitly, you cannot be saved by your own works. [00:15:19] Canon 9 then says, if anyone says that by faith alone the impious is justified in such wise as to mean that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to the obtaining the grace of justification. [00:15:36] And that is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will. Let him be anathema. So here the Council condemns very explicitly the idea of faith alone, that basically there's nothing else required other than faith. So we see the Council of Trent has this very balanced view. It condemns the idea of works salvation and the idea of just faith alone salvation because it, because the Council of Trent, they recognize that the Council fathers then they recognize what the Bible very clearly teaches, what the Church has always taught, that we are saved by God's grace. First of all, God's grace is necessary. We've talked about faith and works, but we need to make sure we emphasize the primacy of grace. [00:16:21] Faith itself is a gift from God. Grace is a gift from God, by the way. And faith itself is a grace. It's a gift from God. We do not earn it, we do not create it. [00:16:36] We can do things to open ourselves up to faith, by opening ourselves up to grace. [00:16:42] The man who lives a lifestyle completely divorced from God makes it harder for him to receive the graces of God. Doesn't make it impossible. I mean, St. Paul himself did many evil things and was converted. [00:16:56] However, living a dissolute lifestyle in which we are separated from God makes it harder to accept those graces. Whereas doing good works, being charitable, things like that, that can open us up, doing certain works can open us up to the grace. So we see this relationship. [00:17:15] So we have this. The grace of God gives us faith. We have faith which is integrated with works. And our works can even help us to have a stronger faith. They can be meritorious, in other words, this is a key part that the Protestants usually freaks them out. Our works can be meritorious, but only when they're united in faith in Jesus Christ and out of love for Him. That's when they become meritorious. Me, just being a social worker and helping out people, it's not a bad thing. I'm not saying you shouldn't do that necessarily, but. But what I am saying, though, that alone is not meritorious. [00:17:55] It has to be connected to Christ, faith in him and love for Him. [00:18:00] So therefore our works, when united in faith in Christ and out of love for him, are meritorious. [00:18:08] And they do help us get to heaven. [00:18:11] Now, one thing that Protestants often talk about is they will say, I mean, the. The average Protestant knows works are important. I want to make sure that's clear. I mean, you know, we have this as Catholics, sometimes we have this stereotype of Protestants faithful and Protestants, like they're a bunch of big dummies. They're not. [00:18:30] They understand works are part of the equation. [00:18:34] But the problem is, is they put it after the fact as simply a consequence of faith alone. And that's not what the Church teaches. In fact, I was debating somebody on a Catholic about this on X because they were saying our faith saves and result in works. That's not true. That's not Catholic teaching. Because what that means any Protestant will actually agree with that. In fact, that's what we said is when I was a Protestant, what I said. So what many Protestants would say is, yes, our faith saves us and they result in good works. So you would have good works. If you didn't have any good works, that means you probably didn't have the faith. [00:19:11] But you note that the works have nothing to do with the salvation in that equation. The salvation comes by faith alone. [00:19:17] And then you just happen, because you have faith now, you do good works out of love for Christ. Okay, but you're putting, you're dividing them too much, you're making it too much of a sequential operation, so to speak, in which faith is the driving force and the only thing for salvation. And works are just simply a. [00:19:35] And an offshoot of that. That's not what the Church teaches. [00:19:39] Works are very much an integral part of your faith and your justification. As St. Paul says, faith working through charity. And as St. James says, you know, we are not saved by faith alone, but by works. And so therefore we have to put that all together. [00:19:56] I think in practice, what I found when I was Protestant, and I still see it among Protestants today, is in practice, faith alone often leads to, and it has led to the sin of presumption. This idea of once saved, always saved. [00:20:11] This is not held by all Protestants, but it has become very common among many Protestants. In fact, this was the first time, this was the first thing I realized that Catholics disagree with Protestants on. I did not study Catholicism when I was in high school. I knew nothing about it really. And I went off to college and I was a good devout Protestant. And I remember I had a Catholic roommate and I mentioned something about once saved, always saved. And I just assumed every Christian believed it because I mean, I was ignorant. I was ignorant. When I went off to college, I knew very little about the differences. Not even all Protestants believe that, but I thought all Protestants did and I thought all Christians, including Catholics did. So my roommate, who was a good Christian, I thought he was Catholic, he said, I don't believe in once, they've always saved. And I was floored by that. That was the first time I realized Catholics don't believe. I mean, when he explained it even more, I was floored because first time I realized that Catholics fundamentally believe things that I didn't believe as a Protestant. And that of course kicked off the process that took a number of years before. Then I finally became Catholic myself. [00:21:19] But this idea of a once saved, always say what it does is faith alone. It gets reduced to a one time decision that you make that basically you come to faith in Jesus Christ, you accept him as your personal Lord and Savior, and then the work of salvation is done. [00:21:35] Yes, you're going to continue to follow Christ, you're going to be out of love. You might continue to do good works after that, things like that. But essentially the deal is done. You're getting to heaven. [00:21:44] And what they do is when somebody falls away later and they no longer are practicing Christian, they say, well, that he never had faith in the first place, which, of course, is a nice little out. How do you know if somebody really has faith if you can just say later, if they fall away, they didn't have faith in the first place, how do you know you won't fall away one day? So, I mean, the whole system doesn't really work. [00:22:03] But this idea of once saved always saves. Faith alone really reduces faith to an intellectual decision. It's kind of like you just say, one day, yeah, I believe in Jesus, and, and okay, now I'm in. [00:22:16] Now I've done everything I need to do. And that's heresy, folks. That's heresy. [00:22:20] Because Jesus demands much more than that. And that's why I want to get to Pope Leo something. Pope Leo said a couple things, actually. Pope Leo said in the last couple days, Pope Leo disputed the idea of once saved, always saved. And I think, though, he's more directing towards Catholics who might not believe theologically the once saved, always saved, but they might act like it. [00:22:41] So Pope Leo says Jesus words challenge the presumption of those people who think they are already saved, who perform religious acts and feel that is all that is needed. [00:22:54] They have not realized that it is not enough to perform religious acts unless they change hearts. [00:22:59] The Lord does not want worship detached from life. He is not pleased with sacrifices and prayers unless they lead to greater love for others and justice for our brothers and sisters. [00:23:10] For this reason, when such people come before the Lord boasting that they ate and drank with him and heard him teaching in the streets, they will hear him reply, I do not know where you come from. Go away from me, all you evildoers. [00:23:25] That's one of the most scary statements in the Bible, is when our Lord says that. He tells people who say, lord, Lord. He will say, I did not know you. That should be something that every single follower of Jesus Christ should always remember that people can call Him Lord, but if they don't act like it, Jesus won't recognize you when you die. And he and you're not going to get into his presence. [00:23:56] This is what Pope Leo is saying. Don't ever be assured of your salvation. Even if you're doing many good works, always make sure why are you doing them. Remember it's faith work, working through charity, faith working through love. Just doing works is not enough. They have to be informed by faith, kind of instigated by faith and out of charity for others. That's what. And charity for God. I mean, love of God. I mean, ultimately. And so this is a great warning that we need to remember as Catholics, and that it doesn't matter if you fast three times a week, if you give to the poor, even if you go to Mass every day, if it's not informed by a deep love of Jesus Christ and love for your neighbor. This is very Old Testament, what Pope Leo is saying, because, you know, our Lord says in the Old Testament, you know, I desire not sacrifice, but mercy. I desire mercy, not sacrifice. [00:24:55] It's not that we don't sacrifice. The sacrifice of the Mass is the most important thing we do. [00:25:01] And doing our own sacrifices, penance, things like that are incredibly important. [00:25:07] To reject those would be like Martin Luther. But if we do them out of a sense of just obligation, even, or just because, well, that's just what we do, and we don't have that charity driving it, then it's worthless. [00:25:22] The last thing I want to talk about when it comes to what the Church teaches about salvation is something Pope Leo also said just yesterday, I believe it was. And this was. He was addressing ultra servers. [00:25:33] And I think this is a powerful statement that we need to hear. [00:25:37] Who will come to our aid? Who will have pity on us? Who will come to save us not only from our sorrows, our limitations and our faults, but also from death itself? This is the question we all ask. We all know we're not good enough. We know things are wrong. We know we're wrong. [00:25:58] Fundamentally broken. Every single one of us is fundamentally broken. We. We know the world around us is broken. Well, then we live in this terrible world. We're terrible people if we're honest with ourselves. Who will come to our aid? Who will have pity on us? Who will come to save us not only from our sorrows, our limitations, our faults, but also from death itself. [00:26:18] So Pope Leo is asking. Then he answers. The answer is perfectly clear and has echoed throughout history for 2000 years. [00:26:27] Jesus alone comes to save us and no one else, because he alone has the power. He is God Almighty in person and because he loves us. [00:26:37] St. Peter said it forcefully. There is no other name under heaven given among men by which we can be saved. [00:26:44] Never forget this word, dear friends. Engrave it in your heart and put Jesus at the center of your life. [00:26:50] First of all, how beautiful it is. To HEAR A successor, St. Peter say this, say these words so forcefully. It's a beautiful thing to hear that. It's a good reminder to us that Jesus alone is our salvation, nothing else. I don't care if you stopped every war in the world. [00:27:07] I don't care if you gave everything you own to the poor and then just that was it. I don't care what you do if you don't have faith in Jesus Christ, if you don't attach yourself and commit yourself completely to Jesus Christ. And how do we do that, by the way? By joining his church, by joining his body. [00:27:28] Because that's what salvation justification really is. It's a complete and utter commitment to give your life completely, 100% to Jesus Christ. And the only way you can do that 100% completely is in the Catholic Church. So if there are any Protestants listening right now, I commend you for putting up with me, first of all. [00:27:46] But secondly, I would just urge you to recognize that your, your love of Jesus Christ, which is commendable, is not complete until you unite yourself complete to his body here on earth in the Catholic Church. That's what he calls us to do. We put our complete faith, our complete trust in Jesus. We follow the commandments and we, we give our entire lives over to Him. We don't, we're not presumptuous think that we are already saved. We're not scrupulous thinking we can't be saved because we're not saved under our power, but only through the power of Jesus Christ, and He loves us and he's all merciful, so we can be saved. But if we give that total commitment to Jesus Christ, faith and works, a whole life given to him, then we will be saved. [00:28:29] So whether you are the President, United States or a humble janitor somewhere, it doesn't matter. [00:28:37] You can be saved. You can reign in heaven with Jesus Christ if you give a total commitment to him. [00:28:42] Okay, let me go ahead and listen to, I mean bring up the live chat. [00:28:48] Anna Kate Houses. I think Eric doing tick tock dances would be great for Crisis's brand. Yes, I know that is sarcasm because that would be the worst thing you do. I, I did a trump dance, remember last, during the campaign last year. So, I mean, you got something out of me and that's about all you're ever gonna get at me. So yes, I do not think that's going to happen. [00:29:07] 1 Crystal Ball Rojas says Trump is first president in my life to publicly admit he wants to go to heaven, admit he's not high on the list. Whereas Biden would say publicly he was a good Catholic. It's a great point. There is something. It's funny because Trump's reputation is as this arrogant, you know, bombastic person. [00:29:27] Biden's reputation was this. Just this humble Catholic, this humble guy, you know, just, you know, cared for others. [00:29:33] But Juan brings up a very good point. Trump, actually, in his trumping way, which people cannot get past, often people just can't simply understand what Trump is saying because of the way he talks. He is saying, number one, he wants to go to heaven. That's good. That's good. We should all want to go to heaven. And two, he recognizes maybe his. [00:29:55] His path there has been rocky. Maybe he needs to do something about it. So I agree. It's not like Biden, who just would love to tout how much of a good Catholic he was. [00:30:05] Noel Daly says, I love the crisis episode with Monsignor Charles Pope on this topic. They discussed Monsignor Pope's wonderful new book, the Hell. There is an explanation of an often rejected doctrine in the church. Yes. Monsignor Pope is the, The. The. The. The. The great. A great one at explaining the importance of. [00:30:24] Of the fact that we're not all just automatically going to heaven. That is the heresy of today. Peggy is ripe in America, but not really as explicit. Pelagianism. It's just. It's very prominent within Catholics, just this idea. As long as I'm a good person, I go to heaven. As if you're good enough to get to heaven. I mean, what's interesting is when the rich young man asks Jesus, what must I do to have good? Teacher, what must I do to have eternal life? He immediately says, why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. It kind of sets the table. You're not good enough, dude, to get to heaven to have eternal life. You're not good enough to get to heaven on your own. [00:31:00] And so I think that's something we need to remember. So, okay. Oh, thank you, anna Kate. Philippians 2:12. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling. I thought it was Philippians, but I was like, I'll say the wrong thing. So I don't want to put people astray. So thank you. Philippians 2:12, another very important verse when we're talking about justification. [00:31:17] No. Also says, yes. It is so sad that Catholics have lost the practice of pride. Praying for the souls in purgatory, praying for the deceased at a funeral. I hope the revival of tradition brings it back. Yes. Noel that is something. I'm glad you will end it on that because that's a great point to end it on, which is we, while we're here on Earth, we should do everything we can to work out our own salvation and to help others work out their salvation. That's evangelization, it's witness. It's, it's, you know, know, whatever the case may, education, all those things. [00:31:50] We do everything we can. We don't presume that we're automatically going to heaven, and we don't presume anybody else is. I don't care how holy somebody might seem. They haven't made it yet. And they'll be the first to tell you that if they're really holy until they die. [00:32:05] Once they die, though, we don't know if they've gone to heaven, hell or Purgatory. And so our assumption should be, let's pray for them because they may be in Purgatory. Our prayers for them don't help if they're in hell. And our prayers to them aren't really don't help them if they're in heaven. They don't need any help, but they do help them if they're in purgatory. So always pray for people. [00:32:26] You can have a hope. Even if somebody dies outside of the bounds of the Catholic Church, outside of what appears a holy life, a life for Christ, we can still pray for them. We can still pray for their salvation that they made to purgatory and that they will get to heaven, those prayers are still effective if the person happens to be in hell. God will apply those prayers to somebody else in purgatory who needs it. So it's always good to pray for the debt. So, okay, I'll leave it at that. So will you see Donald Trump in heaven? [00:32:57] Well, first, worry about yourself. [00:33:00] Second, pray for him, and then you guys can be. And if for some reason you think you don't want Trump to be in heaven, I actually saw somebody wrote an article about that. They don't really want Trump to be in heaven, then you are on the path to hell. [00:33:11] If there is somebody in this earth, you do not want to be in heaven. I don't care if it's Donald Trump, Joe Biden, whoever, and you don't want them to go to heaven, then you're on the sure path to hell. You won't be there. [00:33:23] So just remember that before you say or think such things as that. Okay? Until next time. Until next time, everybody. God love you, Sam.