Is the "Reverent Novus Ordo" the Same As the TLM?

[00:00:12] An ongoing debate among conservative and traditional Catholics is whether or not a Reverend nova sorta mass is an equivalent replacement for the traditional latin mass. That's what we talk about today on Christ's point. Hello, I'm Eric Samuel, your us editor in chief of Crisis magazine. Before we get started, to encourage people to smash that like button, to subscribe the channel. And don't hit the notify button, though, because you have a life outside the Internet. You don't want your phone telling you what to do. Also, you can find us on social media at Crisis mag. Subscribe to our email newsletter, just go to crisismagazine.com, fill in your email address, and you will get our article sent to your inbox every day, usually two articles a day. Okay, so I'm doing this a little bit. Usually I podcast solo on Tuesdays. I'm doing on Monday because I will be in Detroit this week, and so I encourage people in the Detroit area. Come hear me give talks. I'll be talking about my book, the topics of my book, deadly indifference, how the church lost her mission, how we can reclaim it. I'll be at three different parishes. Now, I will note that all three of the talks are essentially the same talk, but they're in different areas of Detroit. So I just encourage you to, if you're watching this live or right after I record the week of February 19, 2024, to come check it out, I'd love to see you there. Okay, so the reason I'm bringing up this topic about Reverend Nova Sordo versus a traditional latin mass is because in Austin, at the cathedral, the bishop announced the cathedral had a TLM, had a traditional latin mass. It celebrated, and the bishop announced that it would be ending next month in March. And in it, he basically indicated that he was doing this under the directive of the Vatican. I mean, essentially the Vatican told him to do this. So he did this. Now, he did note one thing, though, which is a little bit different than some of the different bishops who've shut down TLMs, who've just basically said, you're done, go find a parish to attend, and we don't really care about you. He instead, I'll put up the letter. I don't know if you can read it, probably can't read on the screen here, but one thing he noted was that he said, you must attend. [00:02:21] I'm sorry. It would change to the mass would be the current edition of the Romans missile, just another way to refer to the nova sorta missile, the mass that said, at most parishes around the world today. [00:02:34] He noted, however, contrary to most masses said around the world today that it would be in the latin language at the cathedral's high altar, and using ad orientum orientation, meaning the priests would be facing the altar, facing the same direction as the people. And so this was something interesting because it was clearly seen by most people as, okay, you're not going to get to traditional latin mass. I have to take that away. Whether or not the bishop wanted to or not himself, we can all debate about that. Whether or not the Vatican basically told him you have to, whether or not he should have disobeyed the Vatican, not done it. That's a different debate, a different subject. But ultimately, what he did say, though, was that we're going to have a novus ordo instead, but it's going to be in the latin language, at the cathedral's high altar and at Orientum. So clear. That's different than the way most nova sorto masses are celebrated. They're almost always, in the vernacular, they're almost always versus populum, facing the people. And they're rarely at a high altar. Usually, by the way, if it's at a high altar, it has to be at Orientum, because you can't get on the other side of the high altar. It's usually a fix to the wall. I'm not 100% sure about the cathedral in Los. I think that's the case. I saw a picture of it. Amanda on Twitter sent a picture of it. I can't remember for sure about that part, but the point is that this would be, I think most people would agree that you could call us a reverent novus ordo. We'll talk about what that means in a minute. Some would call it a Unicorn novus ordo, because it's not very common. But what this did was I noticed, what I thought was interesting was I noticed that this reignite debate among conservative and traditional Catholics between them about whether or not this was good enough, is a Reverend Novus Ordo just as good as a traditional at mass. And this is something that really divides conservative and traditional Catholics who might be in agreement about other things. And this hits right to the heart of the crisis magazine audience because we have both Catholics who attend the traditional latin mass, Catholics who attend the Nova sordo. But I would guarantee that of crisis readers that attended Novus Ordo, most of them would attend a more reverent, if nothing else, Novus Ordo. And there's, I've seen this debate on Twitter, on Facebook and social media within the pages of crisis about, is this the same? Is this essentially good enough, what the bishop is doing in this situation? [00:05:00] Now, I want to say that before I get started, I've been in the midst of this for years myself. I've been on both sides. I started attending the traditional latin mass in 2011. Before that, I attended a Nova Sora parish, and whether or not I was reverent. I want to talk about this in a minute. Yes and no. I mean, the one I used to attend, by the standards I would give today, I'd probably say no, although at the time, I thought it was good enough to attend and with my kids, better than some of the other local ones. [00:05:33] But then I started attending the traditional mass. However, between 2011 and today. So 13 years. There was a three year period there. [00:05:43] Yeah, three years, where I attended a mass very much like the one that was described by the bishop. It was in Latin. It was at a high altar. It was ad orientum, and so it would be considered a Reverend Novus ordo. And I attended that for three years in my family as well. So I've seen it. I know it exists. I've attended it myself for years, as well as attending the traditional latin mass. And so I think I feel like I'm in a pretty good position to compare and contrast to say, is this good enough? Should traditional latin mass goers basically be like, okay, thank you, your excellency, I understand you had to change it, but what you've given us is good enough, and we shouldn't complain. We should basically just go about and go to this mass instead. [00:06:28] Now, before I really get started in that, I want to make a few qualifications I feel like are necessary for any discussion on the liturgy and the nova sorto and all that. So I'll make these qualifications first. The first one is simply, I've noticed that some Catholics do not like it when people refer to the current edition of the roman missile as the Novus Ordo. They feel like it's a term of insult. I get that. There definitely are people who have used it in such a way, they've turned it into an insult. I do not intend it like that. I simply am trying to find an easy descriptor to describe what Mass I'm talking about. The fact is that Pope Francis took away the ordinary form, extraordinary form that Pope Benedict used, because he basically blew that out of the wire with custodus. And he basically says that what I'm calling the novus Ordo is the only roman rite currently. [00:07:31] And so if you say roman rite people are like, well, which are you talking about? The traditional latin roman rite or the new one? If you see the current edition of the roman missile, it's too long. So I'm just calling it the novus Ordo. And if people take offense to that, I mean, so be it. I can't help that. I don't mean it as an offense. I just mean it as a descriptor of what the mass is. It's the new order novos, or that's what was called initially. So I'm calling it that. If there's some other better descriptor, let me. I mean, like I said, ordinary form is kind of out the window now by Pope Francis himself. [00:08:05] A second qualification I want to make before I really get into the comparisons is the novus ordo Mass is valid. If it's celebrated the way it was written and described in the documents. It's a valid mass, period. End of story. [00:08:20] This debate is not whether or not it's valid or not. In fact, those who say, well, it's valid, and that's all that matters, that's a problem, because that's such a minimum standard and such a lame standard. It's like going up to somebody saying, who's been married for ten years, well, is your marriage valid? As if that's all that matters. Let's say they're completely unhappy and the marriage is in a terrible state right now, and they're not even living together anymore, and they have all these problems, and you say, well, it's valid, so that's all that matters. Of course you wouldn't say that. That's ludicrous. [00:08:57] Validity is like the base minimum. Then you go from there. So the novice order is valid. Now, that being said, there are definitely novice ordos that are celebrated that are not valid. [00:09:09] We've heard this. By using wrong matter, they sometimes change the form. [00:09:14] So I'm not talking about those. I know there's a chapel not too far from me, university chapel, Catholic University, where they don't always use the proper matter. The bread is not always proper, and so it's not a valid mass. That would not be a valid nova sordo. But we're not talking about that. We're just talking about your regular, garden variety Nova Sordo. It's valid. That's not part of the debate, and I'm not even addressing that point. So when my title of my podcast was, are they the same? You could say, well, they're both valid masses, but you could say the same thing about the eastern liturgies the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. That's also valid liturgy. It's not the same as the traditional latin mass. And so let's get into what really matters here, not just whether or not it's valid, because, honestly, I feel like the question of, is it valid? As long as it's valid, that's all that matters. I think it's a very man centered, human centered way of looking at it, because I feel like what it does is it makes the mass. It's almost like a Pez dispenser. As long as it gives you a valid eucharist, you're good. That's all that matters. Well, with that attitude, you give a priest doing the absolute minimum, just say the words of consecration, maybe whatever you need to make it a valid mass, just say that alone, and then distribute communion, and you're done. And that's the same. [00:10:37] Hopefully, nobody would think that's legitimate. So questions of validity are, I think, man centered questions, human centered questions, because all they care about is, am I receiving a valid Eucharist or not? But here's the problem. [00:10:53] That's not what the Mass is for. The mass isn't simply for you to receive a valid Eucharist. The Mass is about the glorification and worship of the almighty God, at which you will receive communion if you so choose. You don't have to. That's the thing, is, you could have a completely valid and mass without receiving communion. So, again, validity is not what matters. Another kind of qualification or statement I want to make is, how do I want to word this? I think it's incredibly uncharitable and, frankly, anti christian. [00:11:35] If a Catholic sees a mass that people are devoted to, taken away from them, a mass that's been celebrated for centuries, taken away from people, and they think that's a good thing, or they don't care about the emotional impact of the people who are involved. Somebody who's maybe been attending a mass for decades, and then it's just taken away from them. [00:11:58] I don't think that's something that we should just act like isn't a big deal. Even if you believe that the Reverend Nova Sordo is equivalent, essentially equivalent, you should recognize at least an attachment to something that has been going on for thousands of over a thousand years. I mean, you could really trace the traditional latin mass back very directly to the time of St. Gregory the Great. But even if you just want to trace back hundreds of years, it's something many saints have nursed their souls on. And so we should always recognize the harm and the injustice of it being taken away. Even if we believe what the bishop is offering in response as a replacement is good enough, so to speak, let's at least recognize that. [00:12:52] Another qualification I'll make, I haven't even gotten to the comparisons yet, is that a Reverend Novus Ordo is objectively a good thing in the church today. I don't want to make it like it's not, because we all have been to masses, novus ordo masses, probably likely, that are not reverent and that really are scandalous. And so when a priest takes the celebration of the liturgy that he's been given, the novus ordo, and we're talking about in this case, and he celebrates it as reverently as possible, as close to the rubrics as possible and the best of his ability, I think that's objectively a good thing, and I think it'd be wrong to act like that's somehow a bad thing. So I'm not saying that a Reverend Novus Ordos are celebrated in other places, that they're bad things, or even the one that will be celebrated in Austin is a bad thing. [00:13:42] The question is going to be, is, is it equivalent? Is it the same? Is it as good as, frankly, a traditional latin mass? [00:13:50] Now, this gets into the question of what is a reverent novosorto mass? What do we mean by reverent? Notice you almost never say here a reverent traditional latin mass, but you talk about a Reverent novos ordo. That's because, unfortunately, it's all too common to not have Reverent Novos Ordos. Now, here's where I'm not talking about clown masses. [00:14:13] I mean, that's always the joke. I kind of like the line, oh, clown masses. Either a trad will say that they're all clown masses, or a nova sort of defender will say, oh, there's not any clown masses. There's not very many clown masses. I mean, I don't even know if there are any more. I mean, a truly clown mass. And there's rarely a truly over the top, like, anti reverent novos ordo celebrated anymore. [00:14:38] I don't think that's a common thing. However, is the typical novus ordo mass as it's celebrating the typical parish? Is it reverent? Now, this, I will admit, I think we get on some subjective grounds. It's not necessarily an objective standard. Certain objective standards, yes, absolutely. [00:14:58] And there are certain subjective standards as well. I would argue that our standards of what makes a reverent mass have been so lowered over the past 50 years that we really can't judge what a reverent mass is. A novice ordo is very well, if you plucked the average Catholic out of the pews from the 1940s, let's say you inserted him into the average Nova Sodo parish today. [00:15:24] So like I said, I'm going to Detroit this week. You take some guy from the pews in Detroit, 1940s, you put him in a pew of an average parish in Detroit today. [00:15:36] Do you think he would think it's reverent? [00:15:40] Altar girls coming up, an army of aged women, eucharistic ministers, the priests facing the people, the casualness in which it said, the music that's often terrible does not uplift one to God. All of these things. Would he think it's a reverent mass? [00:16:00] I don't know. I kind of think he wouldn't. And that should tell us something that, I think it should tell us that our standards of what is reverent have degraded over the decades. And so I would argue that the problem isn't necessarily the clown masses, because those are obvious. Everybody knows something wrong with them. I would say a bigger problem is our standard of reverence, like what it really is. [00:16:28] Now, the final thing I want to say, kind of qualification before I even talk about the differences and whatnot, and whether or not they're the same or equivalent or as good as. I'm not saying, and I feel like I have to say this because somebody will come back and point this out or something like, I'm not saying anything about people who attend the Novosorto here. [00:16:50] If I talk about the Novosorto liturgy, did the people who attend it now have anything to do with creating it? No, they didn't. [00:16:58] And so I'm not talking about them in any way, shape or form. I know many saintly people who have exclusively attended Novus Ordo. So graces are, because it's a valid mass, graces are available through it. And as we should know from our catholic theology, there's the objective and the subjective when it comes to receiving graces through the sacraments. In particular, when you receive the sacraments, God gives you graces, but you subjectively can receive more or less, depending on various factors. Some of them have to do with you, your attitude. Some of them do have to do with the surroundings, of how the kind of atmosphere in they open you up to receiving them. [00:17:39] So I'm not saying that those who attend Nova Sordo, I'm actually not saying anything about them. So if you are listening to this and you attend a Nova sorto and you somehow get offended by what I say, that's on you, not on me, because I'm not saying anything about you. I'm just talking about, objectively, the two masses and how they interact and how they compare. So the question is, is a Reverend Novus ordo a replacement for the traditional latin mass? Again, I saw a number of people saying that this is fine and that basically, if you don't accept this, you're kind of rejecting Vatican II or you're rejecting the church's authority to make these changes and things of that nature, even by some people who I know attend the traditional latin mass were saying this. And so the question is, is that really the case on the surface? I've said this to friends before, that if you attend the mass, I used to attend the latin language, Nova Sordo at Orientum, at the high altar. [00:18:36] The average Catholic who doesn't know a lot about liturgy would not be able to tell the difference between that and a traditional en masse. In general, on the surface, they appear very much the same. In fact, if you look at the thumbnail for this episode, you'll notice I have two photos and both of our priests celebrating the Mass, and both are adorantum at the elevation. However, one is a novus ordo, one is a traditional latin mass. People who kind of follow these things will know immediately which one's which. But you might not. You might just be like, I'm not 100% sure which one's which. There's slight differences at that point in the Mass, but the point is, on the surface, again, you can't necessarily tell the differences. Just if you show up, especially if you don't know any Latin, you don't know exactly what they're saying. It all kind of comes across very similar. [00:19:32] However, the more you attend the traditional latin mass, and I want to emphasize that the more you attend, the longer you attend the traditional latin mass, the more the differences become obvious, particularly if you've attended the notice ordo for years, and then you've now attended the traditional latin mass for months or even years, the notices become much more stark. You can't help but start to notice them over time, and they are some fundamental differences that can't be overlooked. Like I said, they take a while to appreciate and understand the differences. The most obvious differences are if you just read the missiles, if you follow along in the missile, that's when you really start to see the differences. In fact, I still remember my parish, my nosoura parish. This was 15 years ago or so, something like that. Soon after Samaram Pontificum came out, our pastor decided to do traditional latin mass. So I and a number of my friends at the parish, we all decided to attend. And I remember afterwards, when we had those red missiles, they handed those out. So we kind of read through that during the mass and everything like that. [00:20:40] And I remember the number one point of discussion afterwards when we hung out after the mass was, oh, my gosh, I can't believe those prayers. I mean, that's literally what almost every one of us said. We were all struck reading the missile by the prayers, by how rich they were, by how full they were, by how hardcore they were, how sacrificial in nature they were. It really struck us. And these are people remember, we were all devoted attendees of the novus ordo mass. [00:21:13] We had missiles for that mass. We followed along, we knew the prayers of the new mass, and now, all of a sudden, we were reading the prayers of the old mass. We're like, holy cow. This is a big difference. Now, of course, you might have seen online, like, the differences between the know the prayers of the day, like during Lent, which is what we're in right now. You can really tell because the colics in the traditional form of lent often mention fasting explicitly, often talk about how our need to fast, whereas the new mass, it doesn't mention that. It very rarely mentions that. But there's so much more than that. The canon itself and things of that nature. The prayers at the foot of the altar before the mass. I mean, that's basically just. You're reciting a psalm, but still, that's an addition. The last gospel. Of course, there are lots of different changes in the actual prayers. There's additions or subtractions and what have you. And it really is significant. I mean, it really is. I would recommend, if you've not watched the mass of the ages video movie, the trilogy, episode two. Episode two goes through in detail some of the differences between them, and they really are quite stark. And like I said, we noticed them when we read the missile for the old missile for the first time. I and my friends were like, holy cow. This is a lot different. [00:22:32] This is something one person said, and I remember they said, wow, this just sounds Catholic. I remember this is not a theological insight or anything like that. This is just an average Catholic who just was like, holy cow. These sound really catholic, these prayers. And it's true. They really do. So that's a major difference. The prayers that are being said at the mass are actually different between the two. And so I think that's something significant. [00:22:56] Also, the gestures done during the mass are very different. [00:23:03] There are a lot more genuflections in the old Mass. There are a lot more signs of the cross made during the old mass. There are things like, here's something. If you look carefully at that thumbnail again, are the two images of the elevation of the host in the new and the old. In the old Mass, the server is holding the vestments of the priest during the elevation. Little things. I'm not claiming that those make the most difference in the world. All the graces in the world come because of something like that. But if you really start to study the old mass, you see that all these gestures have reasons. They all have something behind them. And so it really does highlight that the two masses are not the same in the sense there's just no way you can say they're the same. You can say they're related, but you can't say they're the same. And I wouldn't even claim they're twin brothers and where they look a lot alike, but I would say you could call them brothers, but not twin brothers. [00:24:07] The issue here is that we have to ask ourselves, why are there differences between the two? Why were all these differences made? Now, here's the thing that people don't always recognize. [00:24:21] Leaders in the church made these changes in the 1960s because they believed the new changes would be better at drawing people into the worship of God. [00:24:34] They believed the new mass was better than the old mass at worshiping God and drawing people into union with him. In worship with him. [00:24:46] That's simply the case. Otherwise, you're saying they did it because they were purposely trying to demolish the faith. I know some do claim that. I don't claim that there might have been one or two bad actors. Don't get me wrong. I acknowledge that. But I'm just saying, like, for example, Pope Paul VI, when he approved this, his intention, I believe, was to help people worship God better. So he believed the new mass would do it better. So that because of that, these are all people admitting that one is better than the other. [00:25:19] So we have to ask ourselves, is that the case? Is one then better than the other, or are they exactly equivalent, and they both worship the exact same? If that's the case, why would we even stop the old one? Why would we have gotten the new one? Why would we end the old mass at the Austin cathedral if they're the exactly the same. Clearly, leaders in the church don't think they're the same. They think the new mass is better. So we have to ask ourselves, is the new mass better? And I would, of course, I think this is going to come as a shock to no one. [00:25:52] I would, of course, argue that it is not that the old mass actually, with all the additional gestures, all the different prayers, all the different. I mean, lots of different calendar, the different cycle, all of that was actually superior to drawing people into the worship of God. [00:26:13] I also think that we have to look at. [00:26:17] The fact is that the new mass can, and usually eventually does get degraded. What do I mean by that? If we look at the new mass and how it's celebrated, the culture surrounding it, the options that are allowed for it, we find that the new mass is much more likely to be conformed to the kind of personality and attitude of the priest celebrating it. If the priest is more of a kind of outgoing, happy go lucky guy, the mass kind of tends to be like that, celebrated like that. If he's a more introverted, quiet person, the mass tends to be celebrated more like that. What happens is the personality that come out more in the novus ordo because of the fact they have more options and the fact that they're facing the people often, and the fact that it's in the vernacular, all these things kind of lead towards that. [00:27:10] And the fact is that the reality is the pressure from the hierarchy is to make the novus ordo, I mean, frankly, less relevant. Not relevant. Well, that too, less reverent. And you see that by bishops who have, like, outlawed ad orientum, for example. Why would you do that? Why would you outlaw ad orientum, the traditional posture of the priest, both east and west, for as long as we know. [00:27:39] And so we see that we have this power given to the celebrant priest, which is just, frankly, too much power. And I've talked to priests who are Nova sort of priests. They celebrate Nova Sordo, and they will admit that they will say the same thing. Yeah, I have too much power. They try very hard, and God bless them for doing it, to stick to just the basic rubrics. But even that's kind of a decision they have to make. They have no decision to make in the traditional mass. They just have to say it how it's out there. There's no options for them, really. [00:28:11] I would also say this is something I think we don't always note, is that the culture surrounding the two, as of 2024, the culture surrounding the two are very different. [00:28:26] The traditional at mass has a very long history. [00:28:29] It dates back more than the millennia, and it really has its foundations from apostolic times. The Nova sorto, while it does have connections to the old roman rite, is basically 60 years old. [00:28:43] I'm sorry, about 50 years old. It's about the same age as me, so I don't want to make myself older than I actually am because of that. The traditional mass is more what I call antifragile. What I mean by that is it's less likely to be changed. It's harder to change. [00:29:02] The derogatory term is fossilized, but that's actually its strength, is the fact that it's more solid, it's more secured. It can't really be changed very easily. [00:29:15] The novus ordo, because of the culture surrounding for the past six years and its youth and all that, it's much easier to change and degrade. We all have seen this, where a parish might have a nova sore celebrated by a priest pastor who's great, he's doing a good job, it's great. Then all of a sudden, he gets transferred somewhere else, a new guy comes in, and the whole thing gets changed. Now it's a completely different atmosphere at the mass than it was with the old pastor. That should not change who the priest is celebrating. The mass should not have hardly any impact on the atmosphere, the culture, and the way a mass is celebrated. [00:29:51] But it does all too often, sadly, tragically. And so even when you have a. Like, for example, this Austin cathedral. Yes. They're going to start with latin language, with ad orientum, and at the high altar, how long will that remain? Will that still be the case in five years? I doubt it. Frankly, I doubt it at the rate we're going. [00:30:14] And so I really feel like we have to acknowledge that the culture surrounding the two are very different. And you can't just kind of pick up one and replace it with the other one and act like everything is basically still the same. [00:30:29] They're not. It's not going to be different. Now, some might argue that the culture surrounding the nutritional mass is a negative one. That's why Pope Francis did what he did to try to restrict it. Okay, I won't argue that there are some bad apples in the trad community, just like there are a lot of bad apples in the Novasoro community. Like I've always said, by the way, this is not to say this person's a bad apple. Just the example I've given is, if you want to ban the Trish lent mass because of Taylor Marshall, then you have to ban the no sorrow because of Father James Martin, because they're the two prominent online people. And if you think Taylor Marshall is a terrible problem, so therefore you have to ban the whole traditional mass, we'll do the same to no sore because it's Father James Martin. I use that example only to show how ludicrous it is to shut down a mass because of what you perceive to be a few bad apples. [00:31:17] And so I really think that this is why people need. People within Novos Ordo need to realize why TLM attenders are so upset when their TLM is taken away. It's not just a mix and match thing. [00:31:36] Their whole spirituality has developed around a mass, again, that has been around for centuries. If somebody just decided to create their own mass, so to speak, and people were attached to it and had an emotional attachment, and the pope came in and shut down, that's one thing, because that's actually against the church. They created their own mass on their own or whatever, that's one thing. But if they're attached to something that literally millions of Catholics over the centuries have been attached to, that saints have been formed on, that have been developed by saints, and they're attached to that, and you take that away from them. [00:32:13] I just think you have to recognize what a tragedy that is and how difficult that would be for the people who attend that mass. It's not just a personal preference. Yes, it's a personal preference, but it's so much more than that. It's not just like, oh, I like gregorian chants, so I go to this mass. No, it's because you recognize that everything that going on at this mass has been going on for centuries, and it gives glory to God. [00:32:39] And one final thing I want to say in the comparisons is an attachment to a TLM over the novus ordo. Is this a rejection of Vatican II? Here's the thing I would like to say. [00:32:54] I would argue that an english language traditional latin mass, a TLm silver in english, is more in line with Vatican II than a latin language, nova sordo. I'll say that again. An english language traditional latin mass is more in line with Vatican II and the liturgical documents of Vatican II than a latin language, novosorto. That's another thing that we have to remember, is the novosorto was created five years after it was instituted, five years after Vatican II ended. And most of the changes made have nothing to do with what was called for in the Vatican II. Vatican II does mention vernacular language. It actually doesn't emphasize that much, but let's just give that one. Okay. If you had the traditional latin mass in english, in the vernacular, but everything else is the same, that would be more in line with sacrosanium consilium than latin language novos ordo. So clearly it's not a rejection of Vatican II. It is a rejection of maybe some of the spirit of Vatican II things that came out of it. And I'm not arguing, by the way, for an english language traditional latin mass. I'm just simply making a point here. So now the last thing I want to mention is, what should a Catholic do in this situation? I see some people say, okay, you have to find an underground mass, underground TlM. You have to do this, you have to do that. [00:34:20] I would say so if you attend a traditional mass that's taken away from you and they replace it with a reverend Nova sort or wherever the case, what should you do? Here's my number one piece of advice. I'm not going to tell you what you have to do, because, frankly, it is a traditional decision. Now, I would argue that you should protest to your bishop. You should at least let it be known that you disagree with the decision, that you think it's a bad decision, whatever the case may be. Obviously you can do that and you should do that. [00:34:49] But whether you decide to attend that Reverend Novus Ordo or go to another parish, find a latin mass, do whatever, go to the SSPX, that is a prudential decision that I don't think has a one size fits all answer. There are a lot of factors that go into what Mass a family participates in, what time parish, what parish, all these things. [00:35:17] What else is available? Lot of things that go into that. So I'm not going to be here and tell you you have to then find an underground TLM and go to that. Or I'm also not going to say, you have to keep attending that same parish, that same mass you go to, and now you have to attend the novice or in its place. I don't think any of those two are absolutes. I think you should pray about it. I think you should ask God to give you guidance, illumination, and then do what you believe is best for your faith and the faith of your family. And that might mean finding a TLM somewhere else. It might mean attending that Reverend Nova Sordo. That's for you to decide. I do think, like I said, you should protest it to the powers that be. But which mass you end up going to after that? That's up to you. And I want to say also, my last thing I want to say is I am very sorry for all those folks in Austin and in other places where the traditional mass has been taken away from them unjustly. It's no question my mind, it's an unjust taking away of something that cannot be considered an evil, it cannot be considered a bad in the church. The traditional mass can never be considered that. It's just simply impossible to say that without undermining literally the entire basis of the Catholic Church. [00:36:38] If the traditional mass is bad, then the catholic church fell away many, many years ago. So it's an injustice that was taken away. And I'm very sorry for those who did lose it. And I'll pray for you. And we all pray for people in that situation that they could find solace and draw closer to Lord this lent, particularly if it's being taken away from them. Okay, well, that's it for now. Until next time, everybody. God love you.