Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: The Habsburg family is one of the most famous families in the entire world and one of the most influential in history. But what can the example of this particular family teach average people about family life? That's what we're going to talk about today on Crisis Point. Well, I'm Eric. Sam is your host, editor in chief of Crisis magazine. Before we get started, encourage people to hit that like button and to subscribe the channel. Let other people know about what we're doing here. Also, you can follow us on social media at Crisis Mag and you can get our email. Email. Each day we will send our articles to your inbox. Just go to crisis magazine.com, put in your email address and that will come to you. And we promise not to spam you. At least not too much. Okay, so our guest today is a return guest, Edward Hotspur. He's Hungary's ambassador to the Holy See in the Sovereign Order of Malta. His family reigned in Austria, Hungary, Germany, Spain and quite a few other places. Also known as Archduke Edward of Austria, he's a diplomat and a social media personnel. You have to follow him on X if you don't already. He and his wife have six children. He's the author of several books. I think I own most of them. And his most recent book, published by Sophia Institute Press, is Building a Wholesome Family in a Broken World.
[00:01:23] Speaker B: You have a copy? You have a copy?
[00:01:27] Speaker A: You don't have a copy yet?
[00:01:29] Speaker B: I don't have a copy, yes.
[00:01:32] Speaker A: You see where I rank compared to you? That's right. That's right.
I got the electronic copy a while back, but then. So I could read it. But then just last week, the actual physical copy, and for those who are listening, in America, if you order, you will get a copy immediately. You might even get one before the ambassador, before the author does. You might get your copy. So welcome to the program. I really appreciate you being here.
[00:01:55] Speaker B: Thank you for having me on the show. And let me return the compliment. You should definitely follow Eric on Twitter. He's a lively, interesting and outspoken presence on Twitter and I enjoy his tweets very much.
[00:02:08] Speaker A: Thank you. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Okay, so. And that's a diplomat talking. Who said that? So I mean that that means something. So, okay, so I want this before we get started talking about the idea of families, raising wholesome families, what you've learned from your own family history, you know, your personal experience. This week, of course, we celebrated the feast of blessed Carl of Austria, who was the last Habsburg emperor and also a cousin of yours. And I have a Devotion to him. I'll prove it right here, because right here is my holy card that I keep right here. I look at, and I always say a prayer to Blessed Carl before each podcast. And back here, you can't see it, is my bust a Blessed Carl right there.
And so, in fact, just to kind of prove our Blessed Carl chops in this family, I have a proud dad moment here. I'm going to share with everybody. My high school daughter last night was at catechism at our parish, and they had a Blessed Carl trivia contest, and she came in second place, which was very good. There's a lot of people there. In fact, at one point, the teacher even said, you know, you can't embarrass your dad. You have to do well at this. And she did. And she actually won a bus that of Blessed Carl. It's even better than mine. So that's. That's my Blessed Carl proud moment. But I wanted to ask you, just because it's this week, his feast, you know, he's your cousin. You know, he's part of your family, your family legacy. What does Blessed Carl mean to you?
[00:03:36] Speaker B: Well, first of all, for me, what you just told us is so surprising, because who would have thought that this gentle, friendly family father, who in the eyes of the world is a total loser who managed to lose the empire, the First World War, and die a few months later miserably in exile, that this is a character that would be beloved in the United States to the point that there is a Blessed Carl trivia contest in catechism. I mean, I'm blown away. I'm used to people listening when I. When I give a talk about Blessed Carl or my son gives a talk about Blessed Carl in the States of people listening. I've spoken in front of hundreds of people in the States. I've never spoken in front of hundreds of people. Europe on Blessed Carl. So there must be something in this man that deeply speaks to Americans, which is crazy in itself, because America is built on the idea of fighting tyranny and getting away from monarchy and being a democracy. So what is it in Blessed Carl that speaks to Americans and also speaks to me? And I would say the American aspect is Americans want their political leaders to be upright, pioneer spirit. My yes is a yes, my no is a no. People. And I think over the last years or decades, many Americans have lost that kind of faith in their political leaders.
They don't trust them as much anymore. But the American soul is this pioneer spirit. The American soul is we shake hands on it, and we can trust each other.
Blessed Carl, and in different kinds of shades, many of his ancestors in my family stand for this quality. Monarchs used to be the guarantor of law and of justice. And Blessed Carl was someone who took this very, very seriously. And I just don't. Don't just know it from history books. I know it personally because I haven't met him, of course, because he died in 1922, a few years before I was born. But I met his widow, his wife, Empress Zita, when I was a young boy. And she told me personally, I remember sitting in the room where she told us about the coronation of Blessed Carl in Hungary. And she said he was so deeply impressed by the fact that him receiving The Crown of St Stephen was an event nearly like the consecration of a bishop or like the anointing of a priest before his consecration.
It was deeply sacral, he said, when they offered him to renounce to his crown in exchange for getting things, he laughed with his wife because he said, I can't. It's a promise I made to God. I promised him to look after my people. This is not about power or wanting to wear a crown.
He had been anointed by the bishop. He had promised this to God. So I think we feel a lot of that quality that we would want our political leaders to be. And for me personally, in my family, he is highly appreciated and loved. He is probably the most popular Habsburg among the young ones especially. And when I asked them why, they would usually say, because he was a brilliant husband and father. He was a deeply devout Catholic. And he did. He gave his everything for his job, which happened to be emperor. But I can do that, too. So he's a relatable saint. I mean, as every great saint, he has his virtues in abundance, and he lives them in a heroic way. But what he did, every one of us can do. And therefore, I think that explains. That explains a bit, yeah.
[00:07:44] Speaker A: And I agree with everything you said about the American phenomenon of devotion to Blessed Carl. I also think there's another thing. I know people outside of America might find my next statement a bit, might not believe my next statement, but I believe the American people are a peaceful people.
And we are frustrated by the fact that our government has, you know, not been peaceful. I mean, has been a government that has started conflicts or engaged in conflicts and kind of inflamed conflicts around the world. And when we see. When we read about Blessed Carl and his devotion to peace and the sacrifices he was willing to make for peace in a Incredibly difficult situation.
That's something we want in our leaders instinctively. We want our leaders to. We understand. I mean, Blessed Carl was a soldier. This isn't a man who was afraid of a fight or anything. He wasn't cowardly. He was the opposite. But instead, he just understood. And because he was a soldier, I think he understood the value of peace. And I think we want our leaders to really value peace as well and to work for peace like Blessed Carl did.
[00:08:57] Speaker B: I totally agree. And that was, I think, the core message that John Paul II put sort of above the beification of Blessed Carl was. He was an emperor of peace who listened to the Pope's calls for peace in a time where everybody just thought of war. And he went to.
He went so far as to make himself seen a traitor in order to bring peace about because he listened to the call of the Pope. And currently we are in a war where Pope Francis desperately invites all parties to make peace. Hungary, my country, is one of the very few countries that strongly speaks in the same direction. The Holy See appreciates what we're doing. And so we were a bit in the tradition of Blessed Car. In fact, two days ago, three days ago, on his feast day, we gave a conference in Santa Maria della Anima where we spoke and there was a strong Vatican participation, two cardinals, several bishops, where we spoke about this very strong call for peace in this man and for our times, too.
[00:10:07] Speaker A: Yeah. I was telling you before we got on that I was privileged. This past weekend, I was in Washington, D.C. for a blessed Carl conference. There was a beautiful Mass with new music that was dedicated to Blessed Carl that was sung for the first time at this Mass. And the Hungarian ambassador to America was there, spoke afterwards, and, and he mentioned, of course, Blessed Carl's devotion to peace. And I. I really do appreciate that Hungary does seem to be following in the footsteps of Blessed Carl and advocating for peace. I mean, from what I. Everything I see is that they. They seem to be one of the few rational countries these days about just saying, okay, let's focus on peace. And I think that I wouldn't be surprised if that's because of Blessed Carl's intercession for the country.
Okay, so.
[00:10:54] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:10:55] Speaker A: Yeah. So also, there's the last thing about Blessed Carl is you were saying you were on the. On the feast day conference. I was actually privileged. I also was at the 31st shrine to bless the Carl was dedicated on. On in America on.
On Monday. And I, and I went to it and it was just beautiful because it's just. It's grow. I didn't know how many. Charles Colomb actually told me. It's like, that'll be the 31st. And so there's now 31, which for a blessed is actually a very large number because obviously saints still get a lot. But there are 31 shrines, separate shrines for Blessed Carl in America.
[00:11:33] Speaker B: Are you part of the prayer league, Eric?
[00:11:35] Speaker A: Yes. In fact, look where it is. There's my pen. There's my pen.
[00:11:40] Speaker B: Well done, sir.
[00:11:41] Speaker A: Absolutely. Okay, so we'll probably mention Blessed Carl again here, but I just, I couldn't this week. I couldn't, of course, talk to you without, you know, singing his praises once again. Right. Exactly. Now, your latest, you have a book, of course, the Habsburg Way, which I interviewed you about, and that was excellent. But this one is focused on, it says building a wholesome family in a broken world. And why is. And I think some people might not get the connection between Hopsbergs and family who don't really know the history, but there really is a connection there. And why is it that family is central to the Hobsburg legacy, both politically and personally?
[00:12:24] Speaker B: Oh, you can get me talking for half an hour.
[00:12:28] Speaker A: Go ahead.
[00:12:29] Speaker B: In my first book, I had the seven principles of our family, and the first one was get married and have lots of children. I would say that first point from the first book is the topic of my second book, get married and have lots of children, because I believe that having a good, happy lifelong marriage and lots of children is the greatest gift that the two spouses can give each other, that they can give to the children and that this family can give to society. So that's, I think, the core message of the book. Why is the Habsburg family, the family that always stood for family values, having lots of children, having. Having lots of marriages instead of fame for conquest of other nations or something like that? It's because when the Habsburgs jumped onto the world stage in 1273, when the first king of the Holy Roman Empire, Rudolf of Habsburg, the first of our family, became king, he immediately had to rule over a very complicated network of tiny states, tiny dukedoms, princedoms.
And he had to keep them all in peace and in good and peaceful relations with each other. So from the beginning, the Habsburgs were never associated with one nation, but with always relations between different countries, languages, cultures, legal systems. And one of the best ways to ensure peace between neighbors is marriage between you and their children.
It's very easy. The Habsburgs did it even before they became emperor or king.
And of course, in our today's understanding of marriage and love. This is not ideal for the people who are being used as pawns in marriage politics. But this is what the Habsburgs did from the beginning. So they were Catholic, therefore they had lots of children.
And the Habsburgs always had lots of children. You can go through the centuries. It gets a bit less in the 19th century, but before that, lots of children and lots of lots of marriages everywhere. That's why I say that the Habsburg family can look back to a rich treasure of experiences about family life, about marriage, about getting engaged. Now, you will say, you cannot honestly say that the fate of a Habsburg princess that was married off in the 16th century to another court and marriage today are the same thing. No, of course they're not the same thing.
But the basic premises, the basic principles and what makes a marriage tick and work is exactly the same. And I believe we have forgotten about that. I mean, since the 60s, we believe that man has been transformed into something totally different. Therefore, nothing that was valuable before applies anymore. And we've been told that we can be something different every week and should be something different every week if we're really happy human beings. But I believe that all the truths that were human truths for the last 2,000 years, and I would say for the last 10,000 years before that, still apply, because man hasn't changed. The fact that I can read homer that wrote 2600 years ago and understand every line of what he's writing, and it speaks to my soul, shows you that man hasn't changed. We haven't changed. Therefore, I believe I can bring a bit to the table. And if I look around and I see a dysfunctional, broken world with marriages going apart, with people not marrying, with people not knowing who they are, not knowing where to begin, not even knowing how to find a good spouse, not being able to jump and get engaged, I see chaos around me. I see a battlefield of brokenness. And I want to bring a little starter kit for people who want to get into this game and have a good start. Yeah.
[00:16:25] Speaker A: And I want to get into some of those details here in a minute. I want to ask, though, about sticking with the Habsburg legacy here now, in America, our views of monarchy and monarchs is, let's just say, not very high. And we typically think of monarchs like a king who has, like, 13 mistresses, and basically he just has a wife in order to have an heir, and that's really the only purpose of it. But the Habsburgs, I know I'm not saying they're. They're obviously not all saints. But there's been a. It's a different history. Are there. What are some examples other than blessed Carl and. And servant God Zita, who of course had a wonderful marriage. But are there other examples in the Habsburg past of marriages that were just, you know, solid marriages that. That we can say? Yeah, this is a marriage that we can. We can look up to and emulate?
[00:17:15] Speaker B: I give a few examples in the book. I give a few very nice examples. There are. There is a surprising amount of. Number of very happy, very long and very faithful marriages. Of course, there were a few Habsburgs that probably had mistresses by the side, but it was seen as a sin because Habsburgs were Catholic. They went to the sacraments, they went to confession, so they knew what the sin was. And I think the Habsburgs who did that were the great exception. Most Habsburgs had very, very faithful and good marriages and very happy marriages. One example that I would like to point out is Ferdinand I. Ferdinand I was a brother of Charles V, famous Charles V, one of the most famous Habsburgs ever, and his brother became emperor after him. His brother led a famously chaste life before his marriage. He never had mistresses. He never did. He was devout.
He got married. And his marriage to his equally chaste wife was known to be one of the most happy and longest and happiest marriages of that time. And if we think about the fact that at the same time, Henry viii, who was contemporary of Ferdinand I, through his absolute lack of chastity and his lack of being able to control himself and to lead a normal Christian life, destroyed the Catholic Church in England and begins a terrible, terrible, terrible path in England. And Ferdinand I was shocked about the behavior of the king in England. So what I'm trying to say here is simply that is one of the many examples.
Charles, Archduke Charles, times of Napoleon.
He was the first man to beat Napoleon in a land battle. He was a hero. Everybody knew about him. There were monuments built to him. He led a chaste life as an archduke. He got married late. And if you read the letters he wrote to his wife through all their marriage, you get teary eyed. That was such a tender love that they had. And what a wonderful marriage. And I have so many examples of that kind. And why, why is this in the Habsburg family? Well, because I believe that the main ingredient and ingredient number one in my bucket list to find a good spouse is the Habsburgs didn't marry you off to someone of another faith. If you were married off as a princess, you married a Catholic. If that wasn't the case, then that person became Catholic. But you weren't married off to something. And the parents usually try to find someone who more or less had a good moral life, too. But most of all, you married Catholics. And my theory in my book is the first check point that you have to check. If you're in love with this beautiful girl. I'm not talking as a man. And you think she could. She could be someone to marry. The first point that you would have to check off is, do you share the faith?
Is she Catholic? If she isn't, she should become Catholic. If you aren't, you should become Catholic. Why do I believe this? I believe this because I think that the Catholic Church, first of all, has the truth. I believe that as a Catholic, sorry, to the other brethren in the other churches, but I also believe that the Catholic Church has the unique mixture of a moral system of guidelines and practical tools to help you keep a happy marriage, that I wouldn't know how I would live my marriage without my faith. And I love my wife very much, but life throws so much at you. If you have faith in common, then I would say that 50% of the path is really the faith. Now, people nowadays wouldn't think like that. They would think, most important is that she's hot and that I'm in love with her and that we click well and that we have a nice, good, long, intimate relationship before we realize whether we might get married. And that's all having things backwards. I'm changing. Take a step back and think really hard before you even step up closer to that other person. That's the theory in my book.
[00:21:43] Speaker A: Yeah. One of the things I really liked about the book is it's just. It's just really. It's a practical guide. I mean, it's like a text. In fact, I realized after reading it, I'm gonna give it to my son, who's engaged. So he's already gotten to that point. But, you know, there's still. He's got a lot of points in the future, as you know, but, like, even in the back, there's like a checklist of just all the things that you went over. And I was like. When I got to that, I was like, well, this is great. It's like a Hotspur guide to happiness. And it's just like bullet points. It just say, do these things, and things are gonna be better for you. So I just want to kind of go through some of these. Like, what are some practical. What's some of the practical advice you get for Example to a young person who is single looking for somebody to, you know, that he. He or she hopes that will eventually become their spouse during the dating scene. I just want to say, you know, you and I are about the same age, and I'm. I very much am glad I don't have to go through the modern dating scene. I just. It just is not. I have a lot of sympathy, as I'm saying, for young people and trying to find a good spouse. So what are some of the practical tips you give to help young people to find a good spouse?
[00:22:53] Speaker B: One of the main reasons why I wrote this book is because after one talk, two young girls came up to me and said, where do I find a spouse as good as Blessed Carl? And is that even possible in this broken world we live in? And that's why I also called it in a broken world, because we live in a broken world. The probability that your future spouse and the person you are going to lead a happy, fulfilled, long marriage, blessed marriage, that this person will be living around the corner from you is small.
We live in a time where it's impossible. You have to. You have to. You have to look for people who really share a deep faith. You have to look for people who live a chaste life. It has become next to impossible because you're bombarded with so much pornography and images and films. There is so many people you know, women and men, who just throw themselves at you and try to drag you into a relationship of that kind.
It's become very, very difficult to find someone. But what you want is someone that you can really build a life in marriage upon. So you might have to throw your nets a bit further.
I say in my book somewhere that if you want to hunt buffalo, you go to the watering hole. And if you want to find a Catholic spouse, you have to go to places where you meet Catholic people. That may be parishes, that may be retreats, that may be pilgrimages, that may be youth meetings. That may be all those sort of people you need to connect with. People who share your faith, who share your principles, who share your ideas of family. And that can be very easy. For instance, we made in Dallas. We made a conference on Blessed Carl. And the day after, a couple in their house hosted a meeting for all young people who wanted to think about dating and meeting other young people. And we had like, 25 young men and 23 young women. More young men than young women, interestingly enough. We always think it's just the girls who desperately want to get married. But the number of Young men who want to get married in a Catholic way is skyrocketing. I blame this on the traditional Latin mass. And the whole culture around that is that more and more young men find it attractive to be knights here and to behave and to have a life that is good. And so what I'm saying is, don't despair if you don't find someone immediately. Take your time, play the long game, be chased, don't for despair. Hook up with somebody and go into a relationship in the hope that you can hold them long enough to get married. Doesn't work like that, doesn't work at all.
And look for people who really check your boxes. And as I said, the first box is faith.
The second box is family. Now imagine you found somebody and that girl, I always speak of girl, but of course it goes both ways.
That girl is really. You think she's beautiful and you think she's attractive and you love her and all of that.
And have long conversations about family.
It's not a natural topic. You would rather talk about movies and going out and having fun and holding hands. But figure out what the other person's idea of family is. Is this someone who is ready for a big family? Because in my humble opinion, and it's a central topic of my book, a family is a big family.
A big family definition is different in Europe. And in Europe, two children are a big family. In the states, sometimes it's 9, 10, or 11.
But is the other person ready, is the other potential spouse ready to have a big family? Because having a big family don't have to tell you, Eric, having a big family comes with sacrifice. Having a big family comes with life, decisions, comes with. The question is, where are we going to live? Can I live downtown New York in a swank apartment with seven children? Probably not. If I'm in a very small slice of society, I might be able. But most people will have to choose to move somewhere where they can afford to stay with a big family. You will have to find a job that you can do from there.
All these sort of things. Are we ready to have a beat down old van to move around with the family?
Are we ready to not being able to afford everything? All of that are questions that you have to figure out beforehand. And if the other person is on that line with you, then you already have two of my five checkmarks.
[00:27:48] Speaker A: Very good. I want to bring up an issue that I think it's a little, might be a little bit controversial because it's very much against the way of today. And I. The one of the things I like about your book is you kind of like, well, the way of today is not very good, so let's do a different way. But it ties into what you were saying before about how in the Habsburg history you had a lot of arranged marriages. I mean, the whole point was you have this princess who's married off to this prince in order to established this connection. So there was little to no romantic attraction between the two before they were engaged often. But in many cases, because they were compatible in so many ways, because the marriage was set up in a compatible way, the love did grow and they did become romantically in love.
What I have found in some cases, in these, in today's environment of, because of the way our world says it even affects Catholics that they might check off the boxes, but they're like, they're not romantically attracted necessarily. And I kind of feel like I'm getting to the point where I'm kind of like, you need to realize that the checking the boxes is far more important than necessarily some of your emotional romantic feelings. Obviously, if you're just not attracted at all the person, that's one thing, but I'm talking about where, yeah, they have some attraction, but it's not really. They don't get the feeling in their stomach or whatever the case may be.
[00:29:16] Speaker B: Butterflies. What do you think?
[00:29:18] Speaker A: Right, right, the butterflies, exactly. But I'm kind of like at the point where it's like in today's world, you know, if you're checking off those boxes of family, faith, things like that, like what you're talking about, you really should consider that this is a potential for a marriage, even if you don't have all the butterflies. What do you think about that?
[00:29:39] Speaker B: What I would say to this, I have to be very careful because people think that I am going for the, you know, how you call that the kind of rational marriage or there's an expression for that, you know, marriage of convenience or something like that.
Absolutely wrong, of course. But you are right, Eric, in ads that your love, your attraction to the other one definitely grows with the years of being married. I would say that I love my wife and in love with my wife far more than I was when I got married to her. This sounds very controversial. It's like, weren't you at all. But the problem is that love comes from knowledge. And if you spend those many years together, if you are, you know each other so well and you love each other more with passing time. And if I would, I don't want to encourage Anybody to marry somebody whom they don't feel any kind of feelings for. And just, you know, we have to sit down, we make a checklist and then we get married. Because Ambassador Hafsbrook said that if the checklist. No, no, no, of course there, there is, there is an element of, you know, we like each other and. But it doesn't have to be the mind blowing emotional experience because you can count on it. If you pray together, if you live together, if you have children together, and if you like each other and you, if you are character wise, more or less compatible, this will grow. You have no clue who the other person is. Even after months, you have no clue. You will know this in 10 years time, in 20 years time. And that's why while I'm not calling you to marry by checklist, I very much encourage you not to worry too much about. Is this the absolute number one and right one? If everything checks and there is sympathy and there. And both sides want. This is a very, very good chance for lifelong happiness. It sounds very unromantic, it sounds very boring, but I think it's quite a good thing. And people nowadays do it the other way around. They form an attachment, then they go into an intimate relationship. Then they convince themselves for a while, because what I call is they pour sentimental source over their relationship that they believe that they fit together. Because of course your body and your chemicals tell you you fit together. If you have an intimate relationship and you can, you can, you can build bridges over all the differences that you have by that for a time, for a while. That of course burns out after a while because you cannot build a relationship immediately and only on that. So people have it backwards. All of that comes later.
That's why my third point is so very important.
So it's faith, it's family, your ideas of family. The third one is chastity. It's a very much unloved expression. But you are looking for someone who is trying to live in a chaste way. As much as with all our sinfulness. It's possible. But you. This is a high priority. And there is this joke. Two friends meet after a while and one of them tells the other one, I have a surprise for you. I made a vow of chastity, poverty and obedience. And the other friend says, oh, you're getting married.
So.
[00:33:10] Speaker A: Oh, very good.
[00:33:11] Speaker B: What I'm saying is marrying someone who is, in his or her approach, chaste will guarantee a respectful relationship. Also in the intimate way will guarantee that the other person will not be looking to the Left and the right all the time.
My family, we have a saying which is, if you're not faithful to your wife before you get married to her, you won't be faithful to your wife in your marriage. And I believe that chastity is important now. People believe that it's impossible. First of all, it's impossible because you can't live chastity today, mostly boys, impossible.
Also, it's not healthy. They should have fun, they should enjoy their lives. They're young only once. Life is boring later. This is all. I don't want to say the word bulls. This is totally wrong. And you said your children on a path that is incredibly destructive and terrible. Because with each relationship that you begin and break off again, your chance of a lifelong happy marriage diminishes every time a bit. Ask yourself, is it really worthwhile? Or do you. I want 30, 40, 50 years of happy marriage.
I think that's worthwhile to achieve.
[00:34:31] Speaker A: And I think, speaking of chastity, I think we.
I know you recognize and I recognize that in today's world, which is awash in pornography, awash in just immorality when it comes to sexuality all around us, that the fact is they're going to be particularly young men who have fallen on this aspect. And I think that young women should recognize that what you're, what you're looking for is somebody who's fighting for chastity. Not necessarily that they've always been perfect at it in the past, but that they're fighting and they want to be chased and they're, they're going to confession, for example. They are. They acknowledge it. I think that's what you. Obviously the. You want to be the person to be completely chased. But I think in today's world, we also recognize that if the person's really fighting for it and they're. And they're getting the graces from the sacraments to fight it. I think that's what you really. That, that's, that's. That's key in, in the battle. Really.
[00:35:28] Speaker B: Absolutely. That's why my first point is faith. I don't even see how you could survive living in today's world, especially as a man without grace, the sacraments and confession, this is the way to. And I totally agree with you don't want to give the wrong impression that you have to marry the one virgin that still remains on the world, or something like that. No, this is about an attitude that you're looking for in the other person. The attitude is with the grace of God. I want to Give my everything that I can to live a chaste life. As I like to say in interviews, chastity does not mean no sex. Chastity means sex where it belongs. And God has settled these things in a way to make us happy on a long term and participate in this plan for the world. And it's not easy. It's not easy today, it's more difficult than ever, but it's possible. And imagine the greatness of the gift you make your spouse by telling her, I'm trying to be chaste for you. And it's possible.
I have so many friends who do this and in the generation of my children, they try to live it that way and their friends try to live it that way. It's worthwhile. It's worthwhile. And don't listen to people who say impossible, out of this world, sick or whatever. It's not true.
[00:37:00] Speaker A: Yes, yes, there are virgins getting married to each other in this day and age. It still exists. You know, you'll never see on television, you'll never hear talk about, but it does exist. But I think again, the key is that both, both members, both parties are really fighting for chastity and have been fighting for it for quite some time before getting married. I think one of the things I like about the book is also you're basically. It's kind of funny because in some ways what you're saying is simply what the church has always said for 2,000 years. And you're just simply saying everything that we're being told today is a lie. And we know it's a lie because look at all the broken marriages, look at all the divorce, all the adultery, all these things that are happening. And you're just so in a lot of ways you're not saying. I think you know this, you're not saying anything new, but I do think it. You're making some specific examples. I want one that kind of. I don't know why this one kind of stuck in my head, but when you said engagement shouldn't be a. How'd you put like a social media moment?
And like that goes against. I mean, that's what everybody does now. So why, why did you like, why did you say that?
[00:38:13] Speaker B: First of all, what you said about me just stating what the church and human wisdom has always said. There is a scene in one of the Star wars sequels where Harrison Ford says it's true, all of it.
So, you know, I figured out that what the church tells us is true. Unfortunately, it's true. So. Yeah, but to get to why we. I mean, I think most people live two parallel lives. A very unexciting real life and a very exciting digital life. And the idea. I remember when my parents made a trip to the States with us when we were teenagers and we went to the Grand Canyon for the first time. It was in the evening and my mother told us, and we didn't even have phones then.
Don't take pictures.
Take a picture with your inner camera. Remember this moment. I remember the moment because I didn't take a picture. The same goes for your engagement. Your engagement is the biggest step. It is huge. The marriage is just a consequence of that. The, you know, getting married in front of a priest is the consequence of this gigantic. It's one of the most intimate and one of the most vulnerable moments in a relationship. Of course not. If you already live together since years and just have to figure out that you want to have a nice picture of someone falling on a knee in front of you and then afterwards you holding a ring into the camera, as it was with most people. But for two people who don't live together, who don't have a relationship where one of them says, I want to throw my entire life together with yours forever, this is the moment. This should be a fiercely private moment. This should not be. This should not be an Instagram moment. But my children, after I read them the chapter from my book, they went online and they found. Can't imagine.
They found homepages of photographers that explained to other photographers how you prepare that special moment, how you take contact with this future spouse and where you place yourself, find a good hiding spot behind the bush and then have a point on the floor where he needs nose to kneel, to kneel down. All of this horrible, horrible stuff. It's also fake. And the woman has to. Has to pretend she doesn't know, and it's terrible. Now, I don't want to criticize anyone who does that. There are many women who love the idea that they sit in a stadium with a hot dog and the hubby behind beside. And suddenly on the big screen it says, marry me, and everybody claps. And I think this is the worst case of bullying because you can't even say no if everyone's watching. So I believe in my case, it was a spontaneous decision.
I was thinking about at some point getting married with my. With my. Then, well, not, yeah, love interest, but we were. We were praying for a good discernment and we prayed a novena. And it was a novena to the Holy Spirit and it contained the line from resistance against the known truth, deliver us, O Lord. So we prayed that every day, and we went on a pilgrimage together.
And then we sat after morning mass under a crucifix and we talked and we talked about family and the future. And I remember we began talking about how one would do a wedding Mass.
And at that moment, that line from resistance against the known truth, deliver us, O Lord, came into my head and I said, it can't be clearer. And I asked her, without preparation, with no ring, I just asked her, and she said yes. And I that's how it's supposed to be. And I assure you, your future wife would be very happy if she can choose the ring afterwards together with you and have a say. It's much better than if you surprise her with it. So it's just a detail, but it's a sign of how much derailed our realities are.
[00:42:41] Speaker A: It's a very. What you're saying is it should be a natural process, not a invented one like a choreographed one and all that. Because the problem is then it becomes the more natural is the better. I mean, like you were saying about the pictures. Of course, there was no social media back when I got engaged over 30 years ago, but I remember very clearly in my brain, in my inner camera, I know. I remember asking my now wife, and there's something, I like the word you said vulnerable. Because the woman should have every ability to say no.
And that's part of the joy when she says yes. If it's this forced thing where everybody's. It's all choreographed. Well, I mean, it's like, you know, she's going to say, at least feel like she has to say yes. But when it's just as very natural. When you ask your now wife, I'm sure you felt confident there's a decent chance she could say yes, but there's always a chance she could just said no. I don't think so. I'm not ready for that.
[00:43:43] Speaker B: I didn't plan it. I didn't know. I gathered she would, but that's the whole point. It's a free coming together of two free people who are ready to throw their lives together and embark on the greatest adventure in the world.
And that should be fiercely private. But again, to all the people watching, to also all my Twitter fans who. Who know that I sometimes make tiny snipe remarks when people.
I don't want to condemn anybody who loves. There are many people who love this. There are women who want that, who find it's very romantic. I'm just saying it, it goes against my sensibility. Perhaps I'm too old.
[00:44:23] Speaker A: Perhaps I'm too old. Yeah, I mean, we might just be old men on the porch, you know, complaining about kids today. That's, that's okay too.
[00:44:30] Speaker B: Well, I wanna.
[00:44:33] Speaker A: I wanna, I wanna kind of skip ahead in the process of, you know, talk about the wedding and stuff, but people can read the book and stuff.
You have such a focus on children in this, though, and having lots of kids. And of course, you do address the issue of people who just for whatever reason are not able to have kids. But you explicitly say, you know, no contraception and having lots of kids. But, like, why is it that, like, having children is so core to what you say is making up a wholesome marriage?
[00:45:08] Speaker B: Well, be fruitful and multiply. If you, if you decide that God is at the center of your relationship, then you should follow his ideas for marriage. And Jesus says this.
Leaving father and mother, becoming one flesh, founding a family. Be fruitful and multiply. Let the children come to me. All of this is, I want to submit myself to God's plan for marriage. And many people nowadays say this is unreasonable. We can't afford this.
On the other hand, why don't we first earn lots of money, have real success, and then when we're rich enough, we can have a few children. But it's, you know, they get better formation if we have more money, if we have less siblings, then more can afford a good school. You know, it all seems to make sense, but we live in the most wealthy and secure time ever in Western society and we can't afford children. It's incredible. And in the 19th century, people could afford 14 children and did survive. Well, not always, of course, always wonderful. But a plan for God is a big family also, because if God says yes to your marriage, then this marriage was his plan. Then you will become what you are through this marriage and the children. You are only part of what you will be without that. So saying yes to many children is a path to becoming a happy, rounded and fulfilled plan of God. And I truly believe that this calling is, of course, except for the cases where people can't have children. This is, it's, it's a mystery. It's a mystery and a painful mystery. I know many cases where it just doesn't go ahead, it doesn't work. But if you can have children, the moment you get married, begin having children. Don't wait, don't, don't listen even to confessors who tell you, oh, take your time Enjoy each other, have a nice time together. And later it's wrong. Marriage should be open for life and life will make you happy. It's like that.
[00:47:27] Speaker A: And really, you know, it's. I was thinking about something, you know, blessed. Carl said, but night before he was married he said, let's help each other get to heaven. He said to Zita and I feel like children are one of the primary means in which in our state of life, it helps us get to heaven because it's such a death to self. You can't help it. Like you don't realize how selfish you are until all of a sudden this human being has all these demands on your time. And you had been living before this like you just do whatever you want whenever you want and all of a sudden now you just can't do that. And the more children you have, the more you have to die to self. And I just feel like it's a school of sanctity and it's the way God set things up. And just seeing that my daughter just had her first child, which is my first grandchild just this month. And so of course she's not sleeping any struggles, particularly when the baby's first born. It's so beautiful, but yet it's also, it just upends your entire world and. But yet this is exactly the way it's supposed to be. She's supposed, my, my, my daughter, my son in law, they're supposed to be, you know, tired time and you know, having to put this little dependent baby completely above all their own interests. And I think it help. It's going to help them get to heaven. And so this is the way, so to speak. To quote Boba Fetter, whoever it was. And so like, yeah, the Mandalorian. That's right. That's right. I knew you would know. I knew you would know. You're my, you're the pop culture, you know, expert here. So. But yeah, so I think that, I think it makes a very important point you make about having lots of children. But I want to speak because you're a father. I'm a father. What is the unique role of fathers? Mothers and fathers are not interchangeable. What is the unique role of a father in raising children, particularly in their faith life?
[00:49:36] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
First of all, I believe that the great crisis of our world is that we have a fatherless society.
Pupils in school only made female educators all the time.
Fathers.
So many people are raised by single mothers.
Many children grow up without having a father or having an absent father at 2 and I believe, indeed, as you said, that the core role of the father is living faith so that his children see that he lives faith. Now, people traditionally believe that the father is sort of doing the work and all the practical stuff and the severe education and the woman, the mother is for the faith things. But I think it's wrong. I believe that especially with daughters. I had five daughters and one son. We're being told that the father decides upon whether you will have a good relationship with God, with your body, with yourself, with other men, as a woman, depending on the father. So I believe, but mostly my book, I speak about the Father as example for his children in Faith Matters. And the example that I use in almost every interview about this book is, you don't have to be a super saint. You don't have to be blessed, Carl, to be an example to your children. And the example I take is Francis of Lorraine, the husband of Empress Maria theresia. We're in 1740, more or less. They have 16 children.
She's the power player, the empress, everything. He's the husband, and he's a Freemason. He's the only Freemason we had in the family. And he's not a very devout man. On the surface. He rarely speaks about church, faith, religion, priests. Rarely, rarely in his letters. But there is one point where he absolutely and stubbornly, stubbornly clings to. And that's confession. And I have to say that his children knew that he went to confession once a week. It may have been from a feeling of being a sinner. I don't know too much about his private life apart from Maria Theresia. I believe. I believe he was a good husband. There were rumors that he was having affairs or something.
In any case, he adamantly went to confession regularly. He said, go to communion often, but only go when you've gone to confession. And he did that. He kept that date all his life, although he wasn't like what you call a great church light in the other things. But that one was an appointment he never missed, and his children knew it. And when he. Years after his death, Maria Theresia writes to one of her children and says, do you remember how your father always said, go to confession regularly. Don't go to communion without having been to confession.
And God gave him the ultimate reward for this, for this example that he gave to you. Because he died without being able to receive extreme action.
He died without being able to prepare himself.
After visiting the theater, he felt unwell, he went home and he died.
So this, of course, is the worst thing that can happen to a good Catholic. But God gave him the grace to die on a Sunday. And he had gone to confession, to communion that morning because he stubbornly went to confession. And all of his children knew about confession. And even Joseph ii, their eldest son, emperor, and not exactly a very devout seeming man who did a lot of damage to the church. If you read my first book, he saw that his confessor was never far away from him when he was in his final illness and he saw that his mother could go to confession before she died. So, you see, you can be a good example to your children, even if you're not the super saint in everything.
[00:54:06] Speaker A: Right. And I do think that they've done studies that show that the father has the biggest influence on the religious beliefs of their children.
And I think it kind of goes back to what we were saying before about, like, if you're fighting for chastity, that's what matters. And if you're fighting to live a holy life, even though, you know, I know you know this, as fathers, we hate it when we fail because we know the example, it is bad for our children. But at least they see you getting back up and like the fact that you get back up, you go to confession and you're regularly going to confession. You regularly make sure your kids go to confession. I love that story, though, about him dying because the fact that he had just gone to confession. Communion.
We pray in the Hail Mary pray for us now at the hour of our death. It's not like a magical incantation.
We're supposed to do something as well. If we're regularly going to confession, receiving the sacraments, then what's going to happen is we're going to die in the state of grace. It's not, it's not like some magical thing where all of a sudden we just live however we want and then like we'll magically be saved at the end. No. If we just live in that state of grace all the time, then it doesn't matter when we die because we'll be prepared for it.
[00:55:18] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:55:19] Speaker A: And so I think that's very important. I think we're going to wrap it up here. But I just want to personally, I think after, after, you know, reading the book. Building a Wholesome Family in a Broken World, Hobsburg, Lessons from the Centuries, Sophia and Supress. I'll make sure I put a link so you can buy it and maybe one day you'll get a copy of it as well.
But I personally think, like, I. A lot of people get A lot of help out of this, but I think it's a great gift from parents to their young adult children, maybe when they graduate from high school, from college, when they're entering the dating scene, wherever the case may be, because I think it gives them a leg up that they can, they can really have the practical advice and kind of see what direction they're going, what direction they should be going. Obviously, somebody who's been married for years can get. I found things that are like, yeah, this helps me. And I've been married for almost 30 years, but I really feel like that's the. One of the main beneficiaries I think would be. Would be young people. I mean, what were you, what was your audience when you, when you wrote it?
[00:56:19] Speaker B: Yes, I think young people on the threshold, ideally parents, to pass some of these ideas onto their children before they even get into the dating game. But what you said before about, you know, I just. This weekend, this coming weekend, I will celebrate 30 years of engagement with my wife. And next year I will celebrate 30 years of marriage. And as I said, you're never old enough to. You're never so old that you can't continue working on your relationship. And I, in my book, I give the example of Francis Ferdinand, Franz Ferdinand who was killed in Sarajevo. And we have to speak, of course, we could speak about him dying on the fourth of his Sacred Heart devotion Fridays. He was doing the devotions to the Sacred Heart and his wife, and he both carried medals of the Sacred Heart when they were shot. So I'm just saying he was a very devout man, but he was a man with an explosive temper. He also was a very, very voracious hunter and shooter, but he had an atrocious temper, and he had the tendency to get angry and to explode. He knew that. So. And he loved his wife dearly. So he gave her as a present a little brooch of a lamb. And he told her, put this on whenever we're together. And if you see the signs that I begin to get angry, just discreetly tapped the lamb. He was aware of his weaknesses. He was aware of his mistakes. He humbly asked his wife for help.
And I know this story not because of a history book, because one of my cousins got this from her grandmother, who was a descendant of Franz Ferdinand. So this is for you and me.
We can never stop learning to love and to make gestures towards our spouse to improve our relationship.
[00:58:19] Speaker A: I absolutely love that story. I mean, it just, it shows his humility and also shows that, you know, he, he was Not a perfect man. And none of us are. I mean, it's like, interesting because you. You know, the title of the book is Building a Wholesome Family in a Broken World. Well, the reality is that we're broken ourselves. It's not just the world, it's you and I. We're broken.
[00:58:38] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:58:38] Speaker A: Yet we can have a wholesome family. That's the good. That's the good news. It is possible, even for people like us, who, you know, might have bad tempers, might be impatient, might have struggles with this or that. It's still possible to particularly just follow this guidance that the church has given us and you very nicely gave us repeated in this book. I think it is something that can. That we can have a wholesome family, even though we are broken people.
[00:59:06] Speaker B: Thank you. I totally agree, Eric. You. I couldn't have put it better.
[00:59:10] Speaker A: Very good. Well, thank you again for coming on. Again. I'll put a link into the book. I'll also put a link into your X account so people can follow you there. I always like it when you respond to people who maybe make a Habsburg joke or something like that or some. I just think you have a very good way. I can see why you're a diplomat because you have very good way of kind of tweaking them without, you know, without trying to cause offense or anything like that. It always makes me chuckle.
[00:59:37] Speaker B: And I'm immensely jealous that you already have a copy of the book.
[00:59:41] Speaker A: Yes, yes. I savor.
[00:59:44] Speaker B: Don't wave it around.
[00:59:48] Speaker A: You'll get one eventually over there in Rome.
[00:59:50] Speaker B: I think I will. I think I will. Very good.
[00:59:52] Speaker A: Well, God bless you. Thank you again for coming on.
[00:59:54] Speaker B: See you soon again. Bye. Bye.
[00:59:56] Speaker A: Okay, till next time, everybody. God love.
The Habsburg Family is one of the most famous families in the world, and one of the most influential in history. But what can the example of this family teach average people about family life?
