Trump Is an Honest Pagan

[00:00:00] Foreign. [00:00:10] Welcome to Crisis Point. I'm Eric Sammons, your host, editor in chief of Crisis magazine. You know what we do before we get started? I asked that you would hit that like button. Subscribe. No, smash the like button. Hit the subscribe button. You don't need to do the notifications thing because you don't need your phone telling you what to do. But really hit the subscribe button. I appreciate everybody who's been doing that recently if you. It really does help the algorithm know that people are watching and we get more people coming. So which is always a good thing if you enjoy this podcast. So go ahead and subscribe and like also I want to encourage you, please go to crisismagazine.com particularly this week because we're doing a fundraiser, doing like a mini fundraiser, just about two week fundraiser. And you can get a free copy of my book, the Catholic Guide to Artificial Intelligence if you donate a certain amount. All the details are there also, either go ahead and subscribe to our newsletter. We sent an email newsletter. I have found it's kind of funny because I found our podcast listeners are not our email subscribers because our podcast listeners are more young, mostly young, younger leaning. Whereas our email subscribers go the website are a little bit older. We'll just say that since I'm a little bit older, I can say that. [00:01:20] But the point is I'd love it if you'd subscribe to our email newsletter even if you are just a podcast list listener. [00:01:27] The last thing I want to say before I really get started on today's topic is I came down with a cold on two days ago and I got a sore throat. Yesterday I was going to teach a. I teach a homeschool co op class and I had to cancel because I didn't have a voice, didn't really feel very well. But then last night I had to teach our parish's adult conversion class, which I love doing. [00:01:46] And I was like, I couldn't really give that one up. And it was on scripture and I got excited and I kind of lost my voice and I. And so you might notice my voice sounds a little bit different today. I may not make it through the podcast. That might be the exciting part of today's podcast is whether or not Eric will make it through with his voice intact. Okay, so what I want to talk about is some remarkable, a remarkable thing, some remarkable news that happened this week. [00:02:10] Millions of people found out that 60 Minutes is still on the air. [00:02:15] I know it might shock you, you might not realize that you might not Even heard of 60 Minutes, especially if you're among the younger cohort, Just for those who are younger and don't know. 60 Minutes was a huge deal many, many years ago, decades ago, in, like, the 70s and 80s and I guess, 90s a little bit. And it became irrelevant, completely irrelevant. However, it jumped back into the news, all because of Ross Douthat, who was a former writer, Catholic, former writer for New York Times, I believe. And now he's over at 60 Minutes, and he did an interview with President Donald Trump. So this is right after the midterms. Obviously, that's going to be a big topic of the discussion. Discussion. [00:02:51] But what I found most interesting, and a lot of people Catholics found most interesting, is Ross Du, who is a practicing Catholic. [00:02:58] He asked President Trump if required, if entering paradise, entering heaven required forgiving people like Comey and seeing others that he hated, could he do it? Would he, you know, forgive? [00:03:13] And it's not, it's not one you're going to get from most of the mainstream media. So you got to give Duat a lot of credit. He's like the token Catholic at these mainstream media outlets, I guess. But, you know, it's a great question. [00:03:25] If you, at the judgment seat of God, if God asks you, will you forgive these enemies? And if you do, you get in. If you don't, you're out. [00:03:33] And Trump, his answer was. [00:03:36] The answer is no. I want to be honest. No, I do hate some of my enemies, and I always will. [00:03:43] Now, of course, this is contrary to what our Lord says, Jesus Christ, who says, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you in Matthew 5. 44. And also note, this was not abstract. Like, I get an abstract question where, like, oh, can you really, you know, can you love your enemies? I not. It's very hard. Or whatever. No, do that said this, your whole judgment, whether or not you go to heaven or hell will depend on whether or not you forgive them. And, and, and, and Trump just said, no, no, he wouldn't. And what happened was then a whole bunch of people got it just kind of blew up on social media, especially among Catholics, a lot of people making the very accurate claim that if Trump does not forgive them, he is in real serious danger of going to hell and in fact, will go to hell if he does not forgive them. Other reasons might be where he, where he ends up eternally, but at the very least, he has to forgive his enemies. [00:04:35] And so people are condemning him and saying how terrible it is and how he is hating his heart. I saw people saying that and all that. [00:04:42] And I. I have a little bit of a different take. I have a little bit different take. Two things. [00:04:46] First of all, I feel like there's three ways to answer a question like that. [00:04:50] Three ways an American politician, I should say, would answer a question like that. One is to say, yes, I forgive them, and he really means it. And he really means he would forget he forgives them. [00:05:02] Two would be to say, yes, I forgive them, but he doesn't really mean it. But he knows that's the right thing to say. He knows that's the Christian answer. He knows that's still important to answer like that in America. So he goes ahead and says, yeah, I forgive them, but he doesn't mean it. [00:05:18] The third way is the way Trump did, which they know I don't forgive them. Nobody's going to say, I don't forgive them and actually forgive them. That's not really an option. But the Trump answer is the fourth way. And I would say that of those answers, the best answer is the first one. You say, yes, I forgive them, and you really do forgive them. [00:05:35] The worst answer is saying, I think this is the worst answer is number two, which is saying, I forgive them. But you really don't. In your heart, you really don't forgive them. [00:05:45] You're just saying that for political reasons or whatever. [00:05:48] And then in the middle, there is Trump's answer, which I. I call the honest pagan answer. It's the honest pagan answer. He's being honest. He's saying, no, I don't forgive them. And honesty is a virtue. It is a good thing. And I think that an honest pagan is better than a fake Christian. [00:06:06] I think an honest pagan is closer to heaven than a fake Christian is. [00:06:11] I've known people in my own life who are not practicing Catholics, they're not practicing Christians, but they are honest people and they practice certain virtues. Now, I don't think, just to be clear, I don't think that alone will get them into heaven. However, I do think they're closer than a lot of. A number of, I should say, people who claim to be Christian but don't act like in any way, shape or form in their. In their private life. [00:06:39] I think God looks more generously and more. [00:06:45] Yeah, more generously upon those who. A pagan who outwardly rejects him, but yet is still striving to live a certain life of virtue, then he does the person who claims to be Christian, but then undercuts it all the time in his life. I think we see this with the teachings of Jesus with the life of Jesus in the Gospels, when he. What does he condemn the most harshly? What does he condemn the most harshly in the Gospel? [00:07:09] He condemns the religious leaders who are hypocrites. He condemns hypocrisy among the religious leaders, not that they were religious. He doesn't condemn that. [00:07:20] He condemns the fact that they're hypocrites, that they don't. What they say does not match with what's in their heart. He condemns that much more harshly than, for example, the centurion who's a pagan, who, you know, has faith, believes in him, believes his power to heal people like that. He often praises and he doesn't praise very many people, but he condemns harshly the religious people who are hypocrites. [00:07:44] And so I, I think as. And I also want to say this. I think sometimes it's a little bit too easy to expect people to forgive their enemies because it's. Because it's a Christian thing and we live in a Christian post Christian culture, but it's still seeped in Christianity. We kind of just assume you're supposed to do this and we don't really realize how hard it was. I remember when I was at Franciscan University of Steubenville back in the mid-90s as a graduate student theology there, there was a horrible incident in which a number of Steubenville students were. Were killed. They were taken in a car. They were driven halfway to Pittsburgh on that, on the, on the. [00:08:22] Kind of taken out on the edge of the highway. And then they were just shot and killed. It was awful. It was horrible. And I was living in student when this happened. I remember when one of the funerals for them, or maybe it was a memorial service, I can't remember. At Franciscan, the mom of one of the students says, I forgive the. [00:08:39] I forgive them. I forgive the, the, the. The people who killed my son. And I remember everybody's making a huge deal about it. But I'll be honest, I didn't really think it was that big deal. Of course she did. That's what you're supposed to do. [00:08:50] But at that point in my life, I was pretty young. [00:08:54] I didn't really have any enemies. I didn't have anybody who hated me. I didn't have anybody who betrayed me. [00:09:00] I didn't really have the experience. I mean, sure I had like people who didn't like me and you know, I had arguments with people, whatever people, you know, in high school, but it was all childish stuff, nothing serious. [00:09:12] So I just kind of was like, ah, of course she did. That's not that big a deal. It wasn't until later I realized in my life that I realized how hard it is to forgive your enemies. [00:09:22] People who've not been betrayed by close friends or people they trust very, very much haven't been attacked viciously by enemies. [00:09:32] They're, they're, they don't understand how hard it is to forgive somebody. [00:09:37] They just don't understand how hard it is to forgive somebody. It's not easy. And think about now. I am not here to say President Trump is blameless. Everybody knows who watches this podcast. I have many criticisms of President Trump. I'm not here to say he's blameless, yet at the same time, think about the attacks he has had made against him, all the lawfare against him, the Russia Gate cover, you know, hoax, I mean, Russiagate was just a joke. The, the, the lawfare against him of trying to get him to, you know, get, go, go to jail over and over again. And of course being shot at multiple times. [00:10:12] I don't blame him that he would have a hard time forgiving his enemies. [00:10:17] And if he, and if, if my thesis is true, that he's actually a pagan, not a Christian, then he's just being honest. He's just being honest that, that he can't forgive them. And here's the thing that Christians need to realize. Without the grace of God, you probably couldn't forgive your enemies either. If you don't have any real strong enemies, don't have anything really bad in your past far as betrayals, things like that, you wouldn't understand. But if you do and you've forgiven them, you know, you know how hard it is and you know you need the grace of God to do it. [00:10:49] And so Trump, if he's not asking for the grace of God, which I doubt he is, I can see why it'd be hard. I'm not excusing him and saying he shouldn't forgive his enemies. I'm simply saying, let's try to put ourselves in his shoes for a moment. [00:11:01] I also think, One second. [00:11:06] I also think it's interesting to see the reaction among Catholics versus Evangelicals to what President Trump said when he said that he wouldn't forgive them. Because Catholics were saying, okay, you're probably going to hell, then you're probably going to hell. But a lot of evangelicals on social media were basically saying, no, that's works based salvation. [00:11:29] I mean, one said, where is it? [00:11:32] One person said, Trump does not have to forgive his enemies. Another says, do you need to forgive your enemies to go to heaven, as do that asserted. And this person pointed to the good thief and said, jesus asked no forgiveness of enemies. If you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you go to heaven, period. End of story. [00:11:48] Another evangelical said, did Nancy Pelosi ask for forgiveness? No. So Trump has no Christian obligation to forgive her. [00:11:55] Franklin Graham didn't directly address the the question of forgiving Pelosi, but he does frame heaven as you just need faith. You need to repent and have faith. He said, faith. I'm sorry. He said, heaven has borders. Heaven has unique and very strict entrance requirements. You must acknowledge your sins, turn from them in repentance, and receive Jesus Christ by faith. Religion can't save you. Only relationship with the Savior, Jesus Christ can save you. He doesn't mention that you have to actually forgive your enemies. He doesn't mention that as something you need to do to go to heaven. [00:12:30] Pastor Josh Howerton he said the president does not understand the gospel. And if it's closer probably to the New Testament category of an unsaved God, fear that respect Christianity and is yet not Christian. Yeah, I kind of in that there's a football field's worth of distance, he said, between a minister using heresy as the basis for policy and a president who does not pretend to be a minister in a moment of vulnerability showing that he does not understand the gospel yet. So he's kind of agreeing that, you know, he doesn't really understand the gospel. [00:12:58] But Catholics, as Catholics, we do believe you have to forgive your enemies to go to heaven. [00:13:03] Not there's works that you are saved by which you are saved, but it is by faith, which includes worse grace, by faith acting in charity. This is what is necessary for salvation. It's not just faith alone we reject that idea. Works are part of it now. A lot of even to be fair to evangelicals, I want to be fair to them. They would say somebody who is truly a Christian, has faith, would forgive their enemies, would want to forgive their enemies. But they're saying it's not a requirement. [00:13:33] But if you look at Matthew 6, he said, Jesus says, if you forgive others your trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. [00:13:42] But Jesus says, if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. And of course, our Father says, forgive us our trespasses, we forgive those who trespass against us. In other words, if you don't forgive your enemies, if you don't forgive those who trespass against you, it doesn't say only if they Ask for forgiveness. Note that if you don't forgive them, God will not forgive you. [00:14:06] And if he's not going to forgive you, guess where you're going. Guess where you're going. [00:14:12] You're not going to the good place, you're going to the bad place, you're going to hell. [00:14:17] The Catechism Catholic Church says in paragraph 2838 that our petitions will not be heard unless we first have met a strict requirement to an outpouring of mercy cannot penetrate our hearts. As long as we have not forgiven those who trespass against us. [00:14:32] In refusing to forgive, our hearts are closed. And that's really kind of what ends up being the problem with Trump is not forgiving his enemies is it's harm to him. [00:14:43] It does not help him, it only hurts him. It doesn't hurt his enemies. It doesn't as much as it hurts him. [00:14:50] Actually, if he forgave people like Pelosi and Comey, that would hurt them more in a certain sense. If they didn't receive that forgiveness, then it would then would hurt him. It actually hurts him when he doesn't forgive them. [00:15:02] That's kind of the irony, the paradox of forgiving our enemies. It actually helps us because if we don't, we hold that hard heartedness, we hold that hatred in our hearts and all it does is consume us. All it does is consume us. [00:15:15] Now this is not works righteousness, it's not Pelagianism or anything like this. [00:15:20] It's simply we refuse to empty the words of Christ of their meaning. Christ literally said, if you don't forgive your enemies, you don't forgive people who trespass against you, you will not be forgiven. [00:15:33] And you have to be forgiven to make it into heaven. And so it's absolutely true. So Protestants who are evangelicals who might act like, oh, you don't really have to forgive your enemies, get to heaven, you're just wrong. You're not following what the Bible itself says. Ultimately, you're not following what the Bible says. [00:15:50] Now let's get back to Trump for a moment. [00:15:53] I think what I, what I always think is kind of interesting when Trump says something like this and people kind of freak out is like, this is not inconsistent. This is how Trump looks at things. This is always how Trump has been. Trump has never been like a card carrying evangelical. He's kind of interesting because if you think about it, every other president we've ever had has at least pretended to be a practicing Christian. [00:16:19] Every other practice, every other president we've ever had in American history has at least pretended to be a practicing Christian. Yeah, we can go all the way back to Thomas Jefferson, how he tore up the Bible and kind of made, you know, rewrote the Bible and took out certain parts of stuff like that. But even back then, there was a certain assumption that all our presidents are Christian. And it's always been the assumption. Trump, he doesn't really go, he does not follow that. I mean, he's been, it's obvious he's not a practicing Christian, not a real, not a faithful Christian anyway, by his actions, by the words he said. I mean, the, the, you know, he was asking in 20, in February of 2020 at the National Prayer Breakfast about love your enemy. And Trump opened and said, arthur, I, Arthur Brooks said, you know, he had a keynote and love your enemies. And Trump opened and said, arthur, I don't know if I agree with you. [00:17:07] And he attacked the very dishonest and corrupt people and used in faith, used as a cover at the Family Leadership Summit in Iowa in 2015. So this is during his first run for president. [00:17:20] He was asked if he's ever asked God for forgiveness. And he said, I am not sure I have. I don't think so. I don't bring God into that picture. [00:17:27] I mean, he's literally, he's saying he's never asked God for forgiveness. You can't be a Christian without asking God for forgiveness, because it's like the first step is repentance. You repent and believe the gospel. That's how you become a Christian. [00:17:40] I mean, you get baptized, join the church, all that stuff. But I'm just saying that's the beginning of it, is you repent. That's always the beginning of it. And he's saying he never, he's never asked for forgiveness. And so he, he, he not only doesn't forgive his enemies, he doesn't ask God for forgiveness. It's not in his equation. It's not the way Trump looks at the world to try to figure out, you know, to include this forgiveness. It's like a pagan. [00:18:04] The pagans were like this, the pagans didn't, you know, go on and on about forgiveness. This is a Christian idea. [00:18:12] You don't see the Roman pagans and, and, and the Greek pagans and people like that. They, they don't talk about forgiveness. In fact, they talk about often destroying their enemies and, and, and not being taken advantage of by them. Things like that. [00:18:26] Trump talks like a pagan. [00:18:29] And also he, there's been many times, at various times where he's talked about his quote unquote faith Christianity. I mean, there's the famous time he cited 2 Corinthians. This is back in 2016, instead of saying 2nd Corinthians, if you call it 2 Corinthians, it's kind of like it's a tell. It's like, you know, what's that, the movie where he holds up the three or something like that. I, I know the meme and I can't remember what movie is from. But anyway, the point being that he kind of tells that he's not really reading the Bible very much or talking to people read the Bible very much about the Bible because he calls it 2 Corinthians. But also he says at one point in 2020 he said, although he was, though I was confirmed at Presbyterian Church as a child, I now consider myself to be a non denominational Christian. So he calls himself this, but he calls himself this note in October of 2020 when he's running for president, when he's in the middle of a campaign and he said, you know, and he has though given God credit for things like when he was shot, he said it was God alone who prevented the unthinkable for from happening when he was, that he didn't die. He did credit, you know, God, the grace of the Almighty for that. Now, the pagans of course believe in God. Some do. Not all do. But pagans can believe in a higher being. Being a pagan doesn't. You're an atheist. You're between a pagan and atheist. A pagan might be theist. [00:19:45] This might be a pagan. Not all pagan atheists said in 2020 to try and get, if possible, I'm not doing and idea though is a little bit hell, he's talked God, he's talked about, you know, not forgiving people. Ultimately though, the language he uses, the language of a pagan, that he's not Christian. And I want to make sure that this is very clear. I'm not insulting President Trump. [00:20:10] I'm not insulting President Trump. I'm simply trying to classify him, to identify him, to describe him, that he is functionally, if nothing else, he's functionally a pagan. And so he should be kind of judged on that standard, so to speak. He should be seen. I'm not saying how God judges. I'm saying us. And so people who the truth is, you know, we should recognize he's a pagan. And you see it also, of course, in his lifestyle choices. He famously has three, you know, three marriages he cheated on, if I remember correctly. I think he cheated on his first wife with his second when she was pregnant. Oh, no, I think he retreated on she. On his second with this. With Melania when he, she was pregnant. When Marla Maples was, was, you know, was pregnant or something like that. There's of course, the, the, the stormy Daniel situation, which I know some people might dispute some of the truth that, but does sound like there were some bad things he was doing. [00:21:04] You know, he's got this, he, he does this. [00:21:09] You know, his lifestyle has not been that of a Christian. And the funny thing is a lot of Christians don't even claim that. Well, even his supporters don't claim that. And look who he has. We've talked about this. I think, I think it was on the podcast recently. Who is his like, director of faith outreach for the White House and his probably his favorite faith person. Paula White Kane, who is not a Christian by any means, traditional meaning of the term. She claims to be Christian, but she's a heretic. I mean, she's prosperity gospel. And she, you know, she's a grifter more than likely. [00:21:40] And yet that's the person Trump most identifies with when he's, when, when it comes to Christianity, to the faith. And so the truth is, Donald Trump then is a pagan. And what does this mean? I mean, what is this, what does this mat. Does this matter that he's a pagan? That he is functionally a pagan. He's an honest pagan in many ways. [00:21:59] I'm not saying he's never lied. [00:22:01] I wouldn't claim that. I'm just saying, no, he, he lives as a pagan and he's somewhat consistent as a pagan. And in his answer to Ross do that about forgiving his enemies. He was very honest about that. [00:22:13] Now, some Christians will, will defend him and use the Cyrus argument that, you know, Cyrus was a pagan. You, a pagan king used for his people. We see this in the book of Isaiah. And so the character, you know, what his character is like, is kind of irrelevant to his usefulness to the Christian cause. I've heard this multiple times. Others would say that he's a commander in chief, not a pastor. And so he's elected for his policy, for his, you know, his position on the, on immigration or the judges he picks, not on his personal lifestyle or his holiness. [00:22:47] And it is true, a pagan, a pagan who's competent can serve the common good. [00:22:55] A pagan leader can serve the common good. Catholics were not voting for a saint. When we vote for president or any elected official, this is all true. However, the problem is, the problem is the scandal Is, is when Christians treat him like a, act like he is a Christian, like he's a practicing Christian and they try to baptize everything he does and act like you have to, if you're, if you're, if you're Christian, if you're Catholic, you have to support everything he does. It's like the Christian way. I mean, you see when he posts these images of himself in, in, in divine. What's that one meme he posted where he's like healing somebody. He looks like Jesus, just like Jesus try to act like he's being a doctor, but we all know that was just made up after the fact. [00:23:37] Excuse me. And so he, you know, these imagery and Christians, his supporters don't call him out on this if he's a pagan. Okay, he does this and we say that's awful. [00:23:48] But when we try to justify and try to act like, oh, it's not that big a deal, it's okay that he does this type of stuff. [00:23:54] And the problem, and here's, now here's where I think is the biggest problem is there's no question in my mind that since Donald Trump has been elected presidency in 2016, more and more Christians, especially public Christians, have taken on aspects of his character and defended it as a Christian way of acting. [00:24:20] The way in which Trump treats his, his enemies, treats those who, who oppose him, the awful ways that, that he, he, the awful things he says on social media. Now don't get me wrong, mean tweets do not disqualify him as president. Mean that he should not be elected or anything, not be president like that. But I am saying, though, Christians shouldn't be doing mean tweets. By mean, I mean the real sense. I mean, you can say, well, bold and, and courageous things online. You can contradict people who are in sin and are wrong and air all that stuff. I'm not saying that, but we all know Trump crosses a line. He crosses a line between just simply saying you're wrong and here's why and saying you're a terrible person. I mean, a great example of this is what he did like with Joe Kent. When Joe Kent, if you remember, he's the one who, who was high ranking security official in the Trump administration. He stepped down after the Iran war and his wife had died under President Trump, under his first term as like a CIA agent or something like that in the Middle East. And then he got remarried. And then when, when Trump, when he turned on Trump, Trump started saying he married too quickly and stuff like that. He basically Insinuated he married too quickly. The man whose wife died serving President Trump, he then personally attacks. And we all know Trump does this all the time. He personally attacks people. And I've seen time and time again, Christians, Catholics included, who take on those aspects. They see, oh, Trump is successful when he does this, I'm going to do it, too. [00:25:46] And that's where the real problem is. Except that he's a pagan and he acts like a pagan and he does things like a pagan, like personally attack people in, in uncharitable ways and awful ways, demeaning ways, in ways they don't deserve and accept that and just be like, okay, we're, we're not going to excuse that. We're not going to forget. We're not going to act like that's okay and we're not going to imitate it. I think that's the real problem here. [00:26:11] And I think the, the, the, the reality is, is that Sirus was a pagan who was used for good. That's all true. [00:26:20] And it's okay if you want to look at Trump as a pagan who can do some good things for Christians. The problem is, is people can treating Trump like he's a Christian, acting like he's a Christian. [00:26:31] That's all, that's completely different. Nobody's acting like Sirus was a Jewish leader, he was a pagan. [00:26:37] And again, you know, I give Trump credit that he was, that he is honest about, like, not being able to forgive his enemies. Like I said, that is better. But I do think as Catholics, we need to pray for him and pray for his conversion to Catholicism, but just to Jesus Christ first and foremost and to Catholicism and recognize he's not a model for us to follow in a personal, in his personal life, in his character. We can support some of his policies. That's okay. I support some of his policies. Nothing wrong with that. But let's not go, go, go so far and to act like he's this Christian leader and you will see too, like Franklin Graham's and people like that, too many people do that. And that's, that's the type of thing we have to do. He's an honest pagan. We just need to, we need to keep it at that. [00:27:22] Okay, so let me go ahead and jump in the live chat again. I don't have a helper like I used to right now to, to help me with this. So I'm just go through ones I find. Okay. I can't pronounce his name. Camille. I think it's something like that. Ex President Biden is pagan that claims to be privately anti abortion Catholic. Okay, now I, I think I would, I would not say this. I would not say Biden is a pagan. [00:27:49] I would say he is a bad Catholic. I do think there's a difference. Biden is not a, A pagan would be somebody who basically just kind of rejects the whole Christian message and doesn't really try to follow it. Biden is somebody who tries to make the Christian message into his image, into the image he wants it to be and which makes him a bad Catholic, not a pagan. I do think there's a difference. [00:28:17] Okay, let's go. Utubio says shouldn't one first start with a definition of what forgiveness actually is? Would have been excellent if Trump had made that. Had made do that. Define the term. Yeah, I think that's a good question. Like what does, what, what do that means by forgiveness might not mean be what Trump means by forgiveness. Trump might be thinking forgiveness means absolution, that you don't ever attack them again, you don't ever oppose them, that you're saying what they said about you is correct. All these things might be true in, in, in terms of mind because he doesn't have a Christian mind. He doesn't have a mind formed by Christianity. If you are a Christian, if you've been formed by Christianity, you know, basically what do that meant by forgiveness? Trump doesn't necessarily know that. And so I think we should give him a little bit of a break because of that. He doesn't really have, you know, he doesn't really have the, an understanding of what Christians mean by it. So. [00:29:11] Okay, let me see what else we got here in the live chat. [00:29:15] Okay. Bill says I don't like Trump saying he hates his enemies. We can hate their actions, but still will the good of their soul. Trump's conservatism is cold, Bronze Age type. Yeah. And I don't like it either. I, I want to make it clear I don't like it either. But again, I do think this is, this is Trump in his pagan mind. He does not see the I, the, the, the alienation between hating somebody's actions and hating the person. [00:29:39] And, and he doesn't see why you would, A pagan would not understand why you would will the good of another. [00:29:44] That's, that's my point of like a, a non pagan like a Biden might understand that on some level. He warps it, he twists it, but he might understand it. Trump just doesn't even understand that. [00:29:56] Bill also says, I don't like Vance either he has a shady background. He talks about faith in a very pro way. His Catholic social teaching views are not accurate either. He supports corporatism. In reality, I admit I have somewhat of a weak spot for J.D. vance. I, I just, I, I don't know. I believe him most of the time. [00:30:17] He's also politician. He's also vice president, United States. And so therefore I don't trust him at all because I don't trust any politician really, other than Ron Paul. He's not politician anymore. And so like with, when it comes to Vance, I'm not sure what I think, but I'm not quite sure he's, he's the boogeyman some people make him out to be. [00:30:36] Okay. Bill also said Trump was a pro choice New York socialite. He was never a cultural Marxist, but he was not a social conservative either. He took on that Persona. To win evangelicals, we need a paleo conservative. Yeah, I agree that he, that's exactly what was approached New York socialite. I think he's still pro choice in his heart, but he's not a cultural Marxist. That's the thing is when we, when we try to delineate everybody into like two sides, Trump is somebody who does not fit. If you're a cultural Marxist or a social conservative, Trump doesn't fit in either of those categories. He does not fit in either of those categories. [00:31:10] Okay. Huskers, Royal scalp says I don't think Trump is really religious at all, unfortunately. I think he knows how to play both sides. Yeah, I think I, I agree completely with that. [00:31:20] Okay, what else we got here? A couple more here, Huskers. Incorrect. Gal says JD Vance grew up without a father, and that means other people could take advantage of him and sway him towards other things. He also was brought into church by Dominicans who told him that because he was married to a pagan, his children should be choosing baptism on their own and not have him. Have him baptize him, which is actually his duty. Yeah, I mean, Vance's background is complex. It's got some issues. [00:31:46] I do think. I. Okay. I personally think that, that, that Vance's Catholic faith is very important to him. [00:31:53] And I do think he doesn't necessarily have a, the, the, the, a. [00:31:59] How should I say, a totally traditional, deep understanding of his Catholic faith. But I think it's a lot better than somebody like a Biden or something like that. I think he, he tries, at least on some level. Also, though, he goes along with a lot of terrible things that the Trump administration has done. So I'm not going to like cheerlead him either. Okay, I'm going to wrap it up there. The voice is starting to give out. I'm cutting it a little bit shorter than I normally do for that reason. But just let's pray for President Trump. Let's pray for him what you think of him. You should pray for him. Pray that his pagan heart, which is, you know, his heart in his mind are, are truly pagan, that they would come to know Jesus Christ in the Catholic Church and that he would be saved. We want all people to be saved. We want to forgive Donald Trump for things he's done wrong to us in our country as well as obviously people like Nancy Pelosi. We want for them to be saved as well and for them to, to really receive Jesus and follow Jesus in the Catholic Church. Okay, that's it for now. Until next time everybody. God love you and remember the poor.