The TLM Restrictions Were Based on Lies

[00:00:00] Foreign. [00:00:10] So what most observers already believed to be true has been confirmed. The tlm, the Traditional Latin Mass, restrictions that were imposed by the Vatican were based on lies. So what is the future of the Traditional Latin Mass in the Catholic Church, particularly under Pope Leo? That's what we're going to talk about today on Crisis Point Home, Eric Sims, your host, editor in chief of Crisis magazine. As always, before we get started, smash that like button like Pope Francis tried to smash a traditional Latin Mass. Subscribe the channel, let other people know about what we're doing here. Also, you can follow us on social media at crisismag and you can also get our email sent to you, our email newsletter. Just go crisismagazine.com put in your email address and we will send you our articles. And every morning, usually around 9 o' clock Eastern Time in the morning, usually two articles a day. And we promise not to spam you as well. Okay, now that we have that aside. So last week, I guess I'm coming this a little late. The news cycle just goes so quickly. And Last week was 4th of July weekend here in America. And I took a little time off at the end of the week last week, but last week, I think it was last week. Yeah. Diane Montana, a Vatican journalist, a great Vatican journalist, by the way, one of the top two, along with Ed Penton, she released basically what was a bombshell story in which she said that she had gotten her hands on the actual bishop's report that was done before Trudicinus Custodis. And it did not say what it was implied or even said that it said by Pope Francis and by the Vatican. [00:01:47] And so the restrictions of Traditionis Custodis, the stated reason for them was not true. And there's no way. And I'm calling them lies. I'm careful always to not call things lies if I just think they're mistakes. If somebody says something that's not true, but they don't realize it, that's a mistake, that's an error, it's not a lie. But if somebody says something that's not true, but they know it's not true, then that's a lie. And I don't see how you can get around the fact that the Vatican officials, including Pope Francis, knew that what they were saying in Traditionus Custodes, their, their justification for it was frankly a lie. I think they, they had to have known about it before. So I want to talk a little bit about, about that, that story, but before I do, I just, I do want to return to an important point, and that is, can the Pope shut down the traditional Latin Mass? [00:02:41] This is a key question in this debate, and I feel like we can't just skip over it when we talk about tradition as custodes and what Pope Francis is trying to do the Latin Mass and what potentially Pope Leo might try to do the traditional Mass. [00:02:55] The truth is a Pope is a servant of tradition. He is not the master of it. Vatican I actually makes this clear by talks about Vatican I giving, you know, acknowledging all his powers for the Pope and unlimited power, all that stuff. It also states, though, Vatican 1, I'm paraphrasing here, something to the effect of that the Pope, the purpose of his office is to hand off, hand on what has been given to him. It's not to invent new doctrines, not new things like that. And so there's a lot of debate, I know, among Catholics. Can the Pope, does he actually have the authority to do what people claim he can do, for example, shut down Churchill at Mass? [00:03:34] And I would argue no, he cannot, because the. The Pope is bound by apostolic tradition. If we have something that dates back to the tradition of the time of the Apostles, which the traditional Mass does now for all the. Well, actually, people out there, I know they weren't saying the exact same thing in the year 100. They're probably saying mostly in Greek or Aramaic that they do today. And I'm not saying the time, The Mass of St. Justin Mars is identical to the traditional at Mass. So calm down, people. [00:04:05] But I am saying, though, that the core, the core of what makes the traditional Latin Mass and was not part of really the Novus Ordo is from apostolic tradition. And it is something that was handed on and basically became solidified by the time of Pope Gregory the Great. [00:04:26] And so I do think that we can say that the traditional at Mass had apostolic origins, Apostolic tradition. [00:04:36] Now, you might argue, well, what about what Paul. [00:04:40] No, Pius V. I always say Paul Pius V did, when he codified, basically made it where the traditional at Mass, what we call today traditional Latin Mass, made it the main rite of the Roman Church. He allowed for other rights over 200 years old. [00:04:56] I think that exception kind of proves our point. [00:05:00] Pope Pius V was in the time of the Reformation when there was a lot of confusion about the liturgy, about what it even means. In fact, I'm reading a book about the Eucharist right now, and it's talking about how Martin Luther really tried to undercut the sacrificial nature of the Mass and said that was an abomination and it wasn't true and things like that. [00:05:19] So Pope Pius V wants to make sure that the worship of the Church, the liturgy of Church, is completely in keeping with what they're trying to proclaim about the faith to the Protestants through the Council of trend, things like that. [00:05:36] And so he wants to codify because there's a lot of different kind of variations on the same theme. It's not that there was a lot of different, wholesale different, wholesale different Masses. It was more like there was different variations, tweaks. He wanted to get rid of the tweaks, so to speak. [00:05:52] And so what he did was he made the Church what we call the Church Mass, the Roman Rite. That was the Roman Rite, but he allowed any rite that was over 200 years old. He basically said, no, we want to keep that. And essentially that was his acknowledgment that even though he's Pope, he can't just abolish the Dominican rite or the Ambrosian Rite or anything like that, because it had this venerable tradition and it was over. And he just used the time frame of 200 years, which is admittedly a bit arbitrary, but it's pretty clear that if it's over 200 years old, it's kind of stood the test of time on some level. [00:06:30] And so by doing that, he's acknowledging Pope Pius V that, no, I can't just shut down liturgies that are ancient. They've been handed on over the centuries. [00:06:42] Yet it's exactly what Pope Pius V did. [00:06:46] That Modernists today claim gives the proves that the Pope has authority to shut down a Mass, to shut down the tlm. [00:06:54] But yet that's the exact opposite is true. Pius V made it clear they can't shut down old masses, old liturgies, and he didn't. [00:07:04] Likewise, Popes today can't do that. They just simply don't have the authority to undermine absolute tradition like that. And the fact is, is that Pope Benedict the 16th, he basically acknowledged that as well. And some was more on pontifical. When he Pontificum, when he said that the ancient right was never abrogated, because there's some confusion about that. When Paul vi came around 1970, 69, and he basically completely reinvented the Mass and created the Novus Ordo. I know he didn't personally, but, you know, I mean, the committee that created and he, he, he authorized it, there was some question of does that mean he abrogated the old rite, the traditional Latin Mass? [00:07:47] Some say he did, some say he didn't. Well, Pope Benedict Xvi is the highest authority of the Church to say, no, he didn't abrogate it. And in fact, Pope Francis even quoted him saying he didn't ab. That it wasn't abrogated in his letter that accompanied Traditionus Custodis. [00:08:03] I mean, I think a good thought experiment would be, do we think it's. The Pope could tell the Melkite Church, you have to now say the Novus Ordo, you can no longer say your Divine Liturgy. [00:08:15] I think all of us hopefully would hear that and be like, no, he can't do that. [00:08:21] Maybe someone say, well, maybe he can do that, but he shouldn't do that. But I would argue, no, he can't do that. And I would say the Melkites would be wealth in their rights to just simply say, no, we're not going to do that. You have no authority here, here to do something like that. I think that's legitimate. I don't think that's a rejection of papal infallibility or universal jurisdiction of the Pope to say those things. [00:08:45] So I just want to make sure that's clear. But let's go ahead and continue to talk about what Pope Francis actually did and with the assumption that maybe he can do that, because I think let's do that so we can talk about what Pope Francis actually did. [00:09:00] Now, the fact is, is that Pope Francis gave kind of two reasons why he issued Traditionus Custodis in 2021, which basically its point was we want to make the Novus Ordo what he called the Mass of Paul vi, the Mass of John Paul ii. He wanted to make it the norm, the unitive, the unique form of the Roman Rite, the unique expression of the Roman right, meaning it's the only Roman Rite liturgy in the Church. [00:09:35] And he said this was because of unity, that this would bring about, that we need unity. [00:09:42] But the truth is, and we know this, we've already talked about this before, what he's really saying is uniformity, which is not the same as unity. It's kind of funny that the progressives talk all about unity and diversity, known as diversity, but when it comes down to something they don't like, they don't want anything to do with it. They want uniformity. [00:09:58] They will just reject that thing and they want uniformity instead. [00:10:03] And so he said that we want unity. Now, of course, there's lots of ironies in this. First is, are you saying then we don't have unity in the Catholic Church, the universal Catholic Church, because we have the milk, you know, we had the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom the. Basically the Byzantine liturgy, the Maronite liturgy and the Byzantine liturgy, how it's celebrated with like the Maronites or the Ruthenians and things like that is not identical. There are differences. [00:10:28] And so does that mean they're not unified? [00:10:31] Of course not. That's laughable. And it was laughable at the time that Pope Francis issued Traditionus Custodes, this idea that the liturgy must be 100% uniform. I mean, even Paul, even Pius V, when he basically kind of got rid of all the tweaks to the liturgy, he still allowed in the west, mind you, I'm not talking about with Eastern liturgy in the West. He allow for a certain diversity of liturgies as long as they had an ancient pedigree. [00:11:04] Well, this is kind of throwing it on its head. It's saying, okay, we're only going to allow. [00:11:09] It's like the opposite. It's like the Bizarro Pius V move by Francis. We're only going to allow the. The new. The recent liturgy, and we're going to abolish or at least attempt to abolish all the ancient liturgies. It's literally the exact opposite of what Pius V did. [00:11:28] And so he said he wanted unity. A second thing, though, he said it's very important is he said basically he's just responding to the cry of the bishops cidality for the winter. [00:11:42] The bishops wanted him to do this. In fact, I want to read to you what he. What he said in the letter. This is the letter of Pope Francis to the bishops of the whole world that accompanies the apostolic modu proprio Tradicionos Custodis. [00:11:58] So first he says, let me find this here. I thought I had Mark. Okay, yeah. He talks about the fact that Benedict issues of moron pontificam in an attempt to basically kind of bring things together, allow people who appreciate the. The ancient right to continue to celebrate it and to bring a certain uniform, a certain legal right to it and control of it by the bishops, things like that. And he talks about that, but he says, with the passage of 13 years, meaning since Samoron Pontificalum came out, I instructed the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith to circulate a questionnaire to the bishops regarding the implementation of the Moido Poprio Summerum Pontificam. This is very important. So this is the questionnaire, which nobody got the results to. [00:12:48] It wasn't released. It was just a. I sent a questionnaire to the bishops. And then here's what Francis writes. The responses reveal A situation that preoccupies and saddens me and persuades me of the need to intervene now. Now, at the time, everybody thought that meant, oh, it's people saying that there's chaos out there, it's awful, there's disunity, there's division, there's all these problems because these Latin masses being said. [00:13:18] I actually wonder now, now that we know what it actually says, maybe what he's preoccupied and saddened by and persuaded to intervene was the fact that there wasn't any of that, that there was actually unity, greater unity, greater appreciation of the traditional Latin Mass. [00:13:34] I'm not kidding. I kind of wonder if that's what he really meant. Like, he read the questionnaire, the results he saw, according to Diane Montagna's release of this, which I think we have every reason to believe he saw that the bishops were generally on board with it, with some of our pontifical. In fact, let me just get Diane's here. It says the official CDF report states that, quote, the majority of bishops who responded to the questionnaire and who have generously and intelligently implemented summerum pontificam ultimately expressed satisfaction with it. So the CDF is actually saying, yeah, we're fine with that. It adds that in, quote, in places where the clergy have closely cooperated with the bishop, the situation has become completely pacified. Meaning the concerns that people might have had about trad communities becoming schismatic, kind of becoming a we're the one true church and you're not attitude, which, which I do think are legitimate concerns. I'm not saying that that was just invented out of whole cloth, and there's reasons to think that. [00:14:41] But the fact is that the report generally says those who implement summerum pontificam, the bishops who do that, they have enjoyed peace, they've enjoyed unity. They see no problems. They appreciate what Sumerum pontificum has done. And the truth is this just makes sense because everybody who has lived through this knows this. Bishops play whack a mole. That is their job. When a new problem comes up, they try to knock it down to wait for the next one. They play whack a mole. [00:15:11] And some more on pontifical. Got rid of one of those moles that was popping up. And they. [00:15:18] So they're like, yeah, this works. If we just do this, we're happy. [00:15:22] We just allow it to the Samorrum Punta. We allow the traditional at Mass to be celebrated for people who want it. We continue to celebrate our Novus Ordo as always, and everybody's kind of happy. With that. But of course, now that we know that the words of Pope Francis really do tell us something, I mean, when he says that reveal a situation that preoccupies and saddens me. What saddens you about the fact that there's more peace in the Church, there's less division, People are okay with all this. [00:15:54] Now we know, of course, what he's really saying is he's really doing. I think we just have to say this is he's lying. [00:16:02] Now, I know some Catholics will not like calling a pope a liar, but I will guarantee you in the history of the pontificate, every single sin possible has been committed by a pope. [00:16:18] Whether it's adultery, murder, stealing, and lying and all the rest, Popes have committed them. [00:16:30] So if I say Pope Francis lied about something, I believe he did. And I think the proof is right here. [00:16:36] It's not. It can't. It shouldn't be a scandal to the faith. It should not be a scandal to the faithful to simply state that out. [00:16:43] Now, what also he says in this letter, he goes on talking about that the problem of some Mormon pontificalism, supposedly it led to division, people transthinking that they're separate from the rest of the Church and divisions and rejecting Vatican II and all this stuff. [00:17:06] He then writes later in the letter, responding to your request, meaning responding to the questionnaire, what you responded, what you said in the questionnaire, your answers. Responding to that, I take the firm decision to abrogate all the norms, instructions, permissions, and customs that precede the present modu proprio, meaning summerum pontificam, and declare that the liturgical books promulgated by the saintly pontiffs Pius VI and Paul and John Paul II in conformity with the decrees of Vatican ii, constitute the unique expression of the lexerindi of the Roman Rite. [00:17:44] And so. And he says, I take comfort in this decision from the fact that after the Council of Trent, St. Pius V also abrogated all the rights that could not claim a proven antiquity, establishing for the whole Latin Church a single Missal Romanum. Well, of course, we already talked about how that's a joke, but he says, respond to your request. He's lying. The bishops did not request this. Now, I am sure there are a few bishops who did request this, and they were all his pals. [00:18:11] I mean, we saw this throughout his pontificate, that he basically had a group, a small group of bishops which he liked, which he liked their ideology, agree with it. And he just basically appointed them to all the most important posts. And he went along with what they. He went along with what they said. And he, you know, he might led them, too. [00:18:31] So when he says, respond to your request, he's talking about a very small section, not the majority, not even the, the, the, the. The. The kind of consensus or anything of the bishops. When he says he. He's going to abrogate, because you asked me to. This is a classic, like, bully kind of technique. He doesn't take the heat for it. He doesn't want to. He basically made it. So it's like, hey, I'm not deciding to do this. I'm just. I'm just responding to the bishops. The bishops are begging me. They're pleading with me, please, please shut down the traditional Mass. [00:19:06] Okay, you talked me into it. You twisted my arm. I guess I'll do that. [00:19:10] I don't really want to. [00:19:12] That's not really my style. But okay, if you want me to. The whole thing is a facade. The whole thing is lies built upon lies. [00:19:22] We know this now because we know what Diane Montanya found out from the actual questionnaire. [00:19:29] And so it really is a sad situation. [00:19:33] Now, the truth is, I almost didn't do a podcast on this, and I really write an article about this because when it first came out, I was kind of like, well, yeah, of course we know that's what it said now. [00:19:44] Then I realized everybody was talking about it was such a big deal. And it is a big deal because we have proof of it. But come on, all of us, observers, like, with common sense, who weren't ideologues, whether we support or against tradition, custodes, we knew the bishops didn't ask for this. We knew for a fact because of the way the bishops responded to it. They were very sluggish in most places. A lot of them just ignored it. They did everything they could to get dispensations. I mean, the fact is, is that if bishops really had been begging him and asking Francis, please shut down these traditional masses, we would have seen a much more aggressive and enthusiastic response and embracement of embracing, of traditionos, custodes. We didn't find that that kind of gave the lie, but we had no proof, nothing, you know, written down to prove it. Now we do. [00:20:36] Now we know it was all built on lies. [00:20:39] And so it is a big deal because we have the proof. But I think most of us knew this was true. From almost the moment that Jurosinos Costos was released, there were rumors. Diane herself had reported rumors that this was the case. She wasn't willing to say for sure, because she did not have the actual evidence because she's a good journalist, and now she does. She reports it. [00:20:59] So I do think this is a big deal. I saw somebody call this Vatican's Watergate. I don't think it's going to rise to that level, frankly, just because I don't think most Catholics care about the Traditional Latin Mass. I wish they did, but they don't. [00:21:11] And so now the question becomes, you know, what happens next? Well, before I even talk about that, I thought it was interesting. [00:21:18] The major Pope Francis supporters, the major supporters of Teresius Custodus, there was silence at first for like 24 hours. [00:21:27] I think they had to figure out, okay, what the heck do we say in this situation? What is our response? What's our gaslighting going to be? And essentially it came down to, well, Diane's reporting is false, but he didn't actually say that it was a majority. And that's what the report said. And he can do whatever he wants anyway. I mean, it's like they're just removing the goalposts as much as possible to try to find a way to make this make sense, make this not look bad for Pope Francis. The fact is it look bad. Even if we want to grant them that the Pope can do this, the Pope has the authority just abrogate the Traditional Latin Mass completely. Let's just grant him that just magically. Like I said, I don't think that's true. [00:22:09] It still makes him look bad. Why? Because he lied. He said the reason was. He said in the letter I just read to you, responding to your request. He didn't say, I'm doing this because I think it's a good idea. He's saying, I. I'm responding to your request. I ask. I was like, hey, I just want to know what do. What do bishops think about this? And I found out, oh, my gosh, they're freaking out. The world is. The Church is coming apart because of Samura Pontificum. I have to do something because they're begging me to. [00:22:34] We know that was just a lie. So even if you want to say he had the authority to do it, he still showed a despicable, a despicable, just disregard for the truth and a cowardice. Let's be honest. It's a cowardice because just man up and say, listen, I don't like the Church Mass. I think it's bad for the Church. I think it brings division for X, Y, Z reasons. I'm get shutting it down. [00:23:02] At least then you're a man about it. [00:23:05] But instead he hides behind the COVID of the bishops, the false cover of the bishops. [00:23:11] So what does this mean then for the future traditional at Mass? What's Pope Leo going to do? First of all, I think it's interesting. This was leaked. Now this could have been leaked while Francis was alive. I think that actually wouldn't have been as powerful if it had been, because we know nothing could be done. Because Francis isn't going to change what he said. He's not going to go back on it after he had committed to it. I mean, if you commit to something on lies, you're not going to all of a sudden later say, oh no, actually I'm going to reverse it. You guys caught me. Whoops. No, people like that, they just, they double down. [00:23:41] So it wasn't released under Francis, but it was released under Leo, which I think tells us something. I think first of all, it tells us there are people at the Vatican who want Traditionius Castus to be revoked. And so they want to kind of pressure Pope Leo to pull back on this. I think that's definitely part of it and I think that's a good sign. [00:24:05] Now, let's be honest. We know there are many forces at the Vatican who very much want traditionis custodas to be continue to be implemented and even enforced even more radically. [00:24:17] So I'm not claiming that the people at the Vatican all of a sudden these big tradition loving, you know, Catholics and like that, but what's Pope Leo going to do? [00:24:25] I do think Pope Leo was elected to be a kind of a unity candidate. [00:24:31] And I think he seems, at least for now, that he seems to want to abide by that. I mean, he does things like he has more traditional expressions of piety and the liturgy in his public, public appearances and things like that. But he also talks about circumstances to the bishops there. I don't think he's two faced. I'm not saying that, but I think what he's basically doing is saying, listen, I'm not going to be the hardcore ideologue that Pope Francis is. I'm not going to try to create division just for division's sake. I'm going to try to unite the clan, so to speak, on some level. [00:25:06] And everybody knows that tradition was extremely divisive. I mean, I don't care how much you, you may like it. I, I imagine if you're watching me, you don't like Tradition Castus, but even if you like it, you know, it's divisive. I mean, the Fact that I'm doing a podcast about and everybody else is doing podcasts about, and people are talking about it. The fact about it still, you know, four years later, tells us it was very divisive. [00:25:30] It was intentionally divisive to be, in my opinion. [00:25:33] And so if Pope Leo really wants to bring unity, he has to recognize this is a sore spot for unity. This is a barrier to unity. [00:25:42] And so the hope is, is that he would rescind Traditionus Cassotis, go back to Samura Pontificum. Yes, for those of us who love the Latin Mass, we love to go even further. But let's be realistic. Where we are in the state of the Catholic Church today, that's not going to happen. [00:25:58] I think personally, this is just. Now I'm just speculating. [00:26:02] I personally think what's going to happen is over time, I think tradition will be rescinded, at least in practice. [00:26:10] By that, what I mean is that over time, it just simply won't be enforced. It won't be promoted. New bishops will be kind of told with a wink and a nudge. Don't bother with this one. Don't try to shut down new, new, new communities. I know already in Leo's pontificate, a couple of already, you know, Detroit, Charlotte have already been shut down. [00:26:30] But I still think that's. We're still in the honeymoon period. We're still in the early stages of Leo's pontificate. I can't expect them to do too much radically this early. [00:26:38] But I do think what will happen is, is that will return to a samoron pontifical type of status quo in the church. [00:26:48] Obviously, I think he has to do something. He can't just allow. It's not just going to happen if he doesn't say something. But I think what will happen is he'll find a way to basically say we're going to go away from tradition's custodes without throwing Francis under the bus, without saying he was a liar, anything like that. They don't do that. Folks don't do that. But he would say, like, basically, I think after we've done this, you know, just basically what Francis did, after 13 years pontifical, we realized we need an update. He'll say, well, after five years or whatever year of tradition says we need an update, so we're going to do this. And he'll work in such a way that it'll save a little face for the Francis people. But essentially it will allow the traditional Mass. Obviously, that's my hope. [00:27:27] That's my prayer And I do think that if he continues like a strict enforcement of choosing a custodians, he's not going to get the unity that he wants or that the Cardinals won when they elected him. It's just not going to happen. Because the fact is we're talking about the Mass, the most important, the source and summit of the Catholic life. It's the most important thing we do in our existence here on earth is going to Mass, attending Mass, celebrating Mass. [00:27:52] And so how we do it matters. [00:27:55] It's not just we don't go there like just to receive Communion. That's the bis, the biggest falsehood, the big myth of today's Catholics. They think, oh, all that matters, I receive Jesus. All matters. Jesus is there. No, that's not all that matters because we're not there just to receive Jesus. It's a very egocentrical, it's a very narcissistic way of looking at it like it's all about me. I go to Mass for me so I can receive Jesus. No, we go there to worship God, to give glory to God, to adore God, give thanksgiving to God, to ask God for his, his, his providence, his blessings upon us. That's why we go to Mass. [00:28:29] Yes, we also receive communion. And yes, that's very important. [00:28:32] But that's not the most important part of the Mass. The most important Mass is to give adoration, glory to God. And so how we do that matters. We, if you just read the Bible even slightly, you know that, that God cares about how we give him worship. Not because it changes him, but because it changes us. [00:28:52] How we worship God changes us for, for the good or for the bad. [00:28:58] And this is the number one complaint of traditional Catholics about the Novus Ordo is the way that it's typically celebrated, not talking about the unicorn Masses, whatever, is that it does lead people to a, a, a, a lesser faith. [00:29:13] Yes, they receive a valid Jesus. I'm not claiming they don't. [00:29:17] But does it lead them to a diminished faith? [00:29:22] I think in many cases it does. [00:29:24] That's why this matters. That's why we fight for this. That's why we don't just all of a sudden just say, well, okay, we'll just give it up. It's not that big a deal. It is a huge deal. It's the most important deal. And so my prayer is, my hope is that Pope Leo basically goes back at least to some more on pontifical some days that he either quietly or expressly or however goes back to the practice that the traditional Mass is and remains a valid, a, a legal and allowed way to celebrate the Roman rite. [00:30:00] Okay, so that's our prayer. That's, that's my hope for Pope Leo. Let's pray for him. Obviously. Pray and fast for Pope Leo that he would see this, that he would recognize the importance of this. He would bring unity to church by either de facto or dejor. How you pronounce it, de jury or whatever. I don't know Latin very well. Ironically, that he would basically bring about the abrogation of traditionos custodes. Okay, now let's look at the live chat. I appreciate everybody who joins us on the live broadcast on Tuesday afternoons, usually at 3 o'. Clock. Okay. Leo Commander says the responses didn't matter. Cardinal Arthur Roche, Archbishop Vittoria and Cardinal Perilin knew exactly what they wanted, how to get it. This is a coordinate assault on tradition. I think you're right. I mean, I think, I think that's, that's what we found. The responses didn't matter. It's the same farce that they do with the c. [00:30:50] We know the sin on synodality, them getting together is meaningless. They do it as a cover to do what they want to do. They, they say we want to do this. How can we make it more palatable for Catholics? Because we know it's a radical change from how cast have always done things. So we need to make it look like it's the, the spirit of the church. The, the people crying out, directed by the Holy Spirit to bring about all this stuff, which of course is just malarkey. It's, it's false. And that's exactly what they did here. [00:31:17] Okay. Juan says they will allow LGBTQ blessings, but they will not allow Latin, Gregorian, beautiful traditional masses. That's true. Now I think you're also referring to the fact that Cardinal Tucci, he basically called him Fernandez. He basically said, yeah, we're going to still continue allowing same sex black blessings. I do want to say let's not make that too much of what that is. That was him being asked a question, him answering what he thought was true. That's not necessarily what Pope Leo said. I think we should wait on, on that one a little bit. But yeah, you're right. That's exactly what happened under Francis, though. They were cool. They were on the down low with blessing gay couples, but oh yeah, let's do our. Well, actually on that as well. But we know what it was. It's. They're blessing gay couples, but they don't want the traditional. They want to Stomp that out. Ridiculous. [00:31:59] John Mangle says, let's face it, substantially, Paul VI did shut down the TLM until JP2 did the indult. I lived through it. No matter what Benedict 16th said. We were told that the TLM was aggregated. Yeah, actually, I think that's what Benedict was saying was everybody was told it was abrogated, but it wasn't. It shouldn't. It can't be. That was his point. [00:32:19] You're absolutely right though, John. [00:32:21] In practice, it was shut down. I mean, if not for Archbishop Lefebvre and a few others, it would not have been celebrated at all. Because it was very clear any bishop or priest who celebrated it was going to be canceled, was going to be shut down and disciplined and they would no longer have a ministry in the Church. [00:32:41] But I think that's what Pope Benedict's point was. Yes, everybody thought that, but that actually can't happen in real life. Basically saying was Lefebvre was right to do what he did. I mean, honestly, he wasn't saying he was right to do the consecration of the bishops in 88. I don't think Rat Singer would have done, would have said that. But essentially what he's saying was because remember, this is all in the context also of reconciling the, the Society of St. Pius X. [00:33:06] And he basically was saying Lefebvre was right to continue to celebrate the Latin Mass. He did nothing wrong. [00:33:13] Okay, next, James, Pope Leo will possibly issue permission for the tlm to the point TC is irrelevant. I think that's a likely idea is basically what will happen. I think one in Texas was just allowed recently. [00:33:26] Essentially what's going to happen is all the bishops who want to allow the traditional at Mass will be allowed to allow it, so to speak. And the ones who want to continue to persecute, sadly, they'll probably be allowed to persecute, which isn't exactly similar on pontifical levels. But it's like that's probably the reality. So those majority of bishops in America, at least, who are fine with traditional Mass in their, in their communities, in their diocese, they will be allowed to continue doing it. [00:33:56] Curtis Geisel says, I think the TC shutdown is over. Bishops will chip away the TC over time. Lewis, other things to do right now, maybe in five years, TC will be over. I hope you're right. And I tend to have. I tend to agree with you too, Curtis, that I think that the movement is now the other direction. [00:34:11] You know, Francis before Teresius Cassos was leading towards a shutdown of tlm. He then implemented that. That really put it in practice with the goal of a complete and utter shutdown of tlm. That's what he wanted. I mean, he stated that explicitly, but there was a lot of resistance to it. It took slow, longer than he thought. It still hasn't happened when he dies. And I think Leo will essentially like kind of just put that aside and say, we're not going to do that anymore. That's not. That's not the game we're playing at this point. So I think that's. That's probably the most likely. I know it's not what we actually want. Those of us who love and defend the traditional Latin Mass, and even those who don't attend it and love and defend it, we don't. That's. We want more, but we just be realistic where we are. And I think realistic where we are is as long as bishops who allow the traditional Mass to continue are not persecuted and that bishops don't feel like the Vatican is kind of pushing them to persecute the traditional Latin Mass, I think that's what we can hope for right now, and we build upon that. Like I've said before, this is the future of the Church, the traditional at Mass. Eventually this is going to be again, the primary Roman Rite that's practiced in most parishes. I think it's going to take a while, but I think this is just the direction things are going. I mean, they just can't shut it down. This was their biggest effort to shut it down. They tried in the 19 early 70s. They tried again here in 2021, in the 2000 and 20s, but they failed again. And they'll keep on failing the more they try. But I don't think they're going to try that much longer. I think once we get past the Vatican II bishops and priests, I think we'll have less attempts to try it. And organically, then more and more faithful Catholics will ask for and even demand the Traditional Latin Mass. [00:35:53] Okay, I'll cut it off there. I appreciate everybody, like I said, who joined in the live chat, I always encourage you to do that so you can put in your comments and questions as well. Okay, everybody, until next time. God love you.