Is the Bar Being Lowered for Canonizations?

[00:00:14] The recently canonized Carlo Acutis and Pierre Giorgio Frassati have been promoted as ordinary Catholics. But are saints ordinary? [00:00:25] And should ordinary Catholics be canonized? That's what we're going to talk about today on Crisis Point. Hello, I'm Eric Sims, your host, editor in chief of Crisis magazine. Before I get started, you know what to do. [00:00:35] You do know what to do, right? Smash that like button. Subscribe to the channel, Let other people know about what we're doing here. Also, you can follow us on social media ismag, or you can get our email newsletter. Just go to crisismagazine.com and put in your email address and we'll send our articles to you each morning. [00:00:54] We really do have some great articles at Crisis magazine. I encourage you to go to the website. I mean, the podcast is part of what we do here. But really, the bulk of what we do at Crisis are the articles by many great Catholic authors, writers, commentators. Excuse me. And so I really encourage you to go to the website regularly. Like I said, just subscribe to the newsletter, email newsletter, and you'll get those articles sent to you, links to them at least once a day in the morning. [00:01:21] Okay? So I think everybody who pays attention to the Catholic world knows that on Sunday, two days ago, on September 7, 2025, Carlo Acutis and Pierre Giorgio Frasati were canonized as saints. Now, these are two. [00:01:36] They both died young. [00:01:39] Frassade, I think, was 24, and Acutis was 15. [00:01:44] And they're very popular. [00:01:46] Definitely this is one of the more popular canonizations, if you want to call it that, of recent Memory of saints that. That were well, well known and well loved. And what I noticed was that I saw a number of articles, headlines in the Catholic media and the Catholic world about the canonization. I think Carlo Acutis got more of the press, so to speak. But both of them definitely were mentioned. [00:02:11] And the dominant theme I saw was how ordinary, quote, unquote, ordinary they were. They that they were just like us. [00:02:19] You know, Acutis, he played video games. He was a computer programmer for saad. He was just a regular guy. He smoked a pipe and he was a hiker. [00:02:28] This was kind of the narrative I saw at most media outlets was how ordinary they were. In fact, I saw a headline that was a quote that said, you don't have to be perfect to be a saint. [00:02:43] That was the quote. And I think it was from a University of Dallas student. And it was basically saying, you know, and the person was saying how they can identify with Carlo Acutis, because you don't have to be perfect to be a saint. Same with Frassati. Now, I will just say right off the bat, that's a terrible take to say, you know, you don't have to be perfect to be a saint. Because the reality is God literally, literally has called us to be perfect. [00:03:08] Our Lord at the end of the Sermon on Mount. Remember, the Sermon on the Mount is when he's basically giving directions for how we are to live with the Beatitudes, with how to pray fast, give alms. [00:03:22] He's outlining exactly how his disciples should live. And he ends it with the line, therefore, be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect. So actually, our Lord himself is calling us perfection. So to say you don't have to be perfect to be a saint is a. It's just a. It's a terrible take because I'm not saying every saint was perfect in every single thing they did. However, I am saying that saints strive for perfection. That actually is their goal. They want to be perfect as their heavenly Father is perfect. That is the goal of a saint. [00:03:59] And one of the things I saw was in this talk about them being ordinary is it was. It tried to harken back to Saint Therese of Lesoux, the little flower who lived a. From the outside, a very ordinary life. I mean, she was just a. A young girl, and then she. And then she became a nun, and then she died at 24. And there was nothing spectacular about her life from the outside. So people looked at her like, you know, there's this, or the saint of the ordinary. [00:04:31] And she talked about being. [00:04:35] Doing ordinary things with extraordinary love. [00:04:39] Another saint that is called to mind often when it comes to, like, living the ordinary life of holiness is St. Jose Maria Escriva, the founder of Oboe State. In fact, I wrote a book on this very topic, Holiness for Everyone. The practical spirituality of St. Jose Maria Escriva. You can still buy it. It's still available. Ford was by Scott Hahn. I wrote this a number of years ago, but it's still applicable. And you get my website, ericsams.com but the. [00:05:06] The. One of the biggest things about St. Jose Maria Escriva's spirituality was this idea of living ordinary life and that being your path to sainthood. [00:05:18] But what I think is, okay, so that's what. That's what I feel like people are trying to compare this to, like, this. This call of, like, Acutus and Frasadi being ordinary. That. That's what we're talking about. But I don't Think it's the same thing. In fact, I think I would. I would say that it is, that there's some misunderstandings of what St Therese was saying and doing in her story of the soul. And also Saint Jose Maria Escriva. [00:05:51] Because the. The fact is, is that the saints, the canonized saints, they're supposed to be models we strive for, that are above us, that they do live differently. [00:06:03] They are fundamentally not like us in so many ways. [00:06:06] That's not what a Canaanite saint is called to be. It's not called to be like us. We're called to be like them. [00:06:13] Let me repeat that, can I. Saints aren't supposed to be like us. We're supposed to be like them. They are above us. [00:06:21] I remember years ago when, you know, first becoming Catholic, first years of Catholic since 30, 20, 30 years ago. [00:06:31] I remember how much when you talked about somebody being canonized as a saint. It was a big deal. And, like, you looked at a canonized saint as almost beyond the reach. [00:06:42] But that was a good thing. That was something to strive for. I mean, I remember, like, Saint Maximus Colby, I have his image up here behind me. [00:06:51] You looked at the life of Saint Maximilian Colby and what he did, particularly in the consecration camp. By the way, the movie about him is coming out this weekend. Triumph of the Heart, I believe it's called. I'm Going to it. [00:07:03] And hopefully I think it looks like it's gonna be a good movie. I have not yet seen it, so I can't say, but I encourage you to see if it's playing in theaters near you. [00:07:11] But Same X Men Colby, what he did was so unlike the world, so unlike us. That's what made him a saint, and that's what made people think, wow, this guy is extraordinary. He did something extraordinary. He gave up his life in the concentration camp for somebody else. That's not ordinary. That's very extraordinary. [00:07:33] And so I think really what's happening is it's not really. I'm talking about the promotion, talking a little bit about Carlo Acutis and Pier Giorgio Frasati themselves and their lives in a moment. But I want to talk about. I'm talking about right now is the promotion of them. What I saw in all the media, all the discussions about them, was trying to make them just like us. And I would argue that the saints are not like us, that we should try to be like them. [00:08:04] And I think it comes from, like, a cultural. [00:08:07] It's like a dominant narrative in the culture over the past few decades that has creeped into the church. And that is we're trying to knock our heroes down. [00:08:16] A great example of this is in the. In the movie version of Lord of the Rings, which, by the way, I like the movie version. I know there's. There's the hardcore people, Tolkien fans, who did not like it. I liked it. I thought. Overall, I thought Peter Jackson did a wonderful job with Lord of the Rings movies. I thought he did a terrible job on the Hobbit, just to be clear about that. [00:08:34] But one place I felt like Peter Jackson really failed Lord of the Rings was his depiction of Aragon, because he had him as almost like this Hamlet figure who was just, like, not sure what he should do, what his calling was, stuff like that. And he, you know, he had to be kind of urged on stuff like that. That's not how he's depicted in the books. In the books, he is this kingly, royal, you know, knightly figure that is in a way above the rest of us. [00:09:03] And he sets a model that we all then strive for that I think is kind of more who he was. But you see this in so many movies where we have to knock down our heroes. We want to make our heroes more ordinary, more normal, more like us. But the truth is, I think it's healthier if our heroes are on a pedestal. People always talk about, you know, you hear some Catholics say, oh, yeah, you know, we take these saints and they're on their statues and their pedestals, and really, they were just like us. [00:09:33] And I would argue that, yes, I'm not saying they weren't human. That's the whole point of why we admire them is because they were human. They overcame human weakness to be saints. What I am saying, though, is we should put them on a pedestal. We should look up to the saints as beyond us, not beyond our reach, necessarily, because obviously our goal should be striving for holiness. [00:09:55] We should all desire to be saints, but we should recognize that it's a lot of work. [00:10:00] It's not easy to be a saint, and we have a long way to go to be a saint. [00:10:06] That really should be. Our attitude towards holiness, towards sanctity, is it's something we want to strive for. [00:10:15] And if you look at, like, how saints have been portrayed historically, you see, that's always been the norm, that saints have been put upon pedestal. But also, I feel like there's one aspect of sainthood that has been forgotten. That was a common theme if you looked at the lives of the saints. [00:10:37] Traditionally, it was a common theme of almost every single saint that you don't almost ever hear about anymore. [00:10:46] And that is penance. [00:10:48] That is penance. How connected that is to sanctity. If, for example, you read the Martyology, the traditional Martyology, you see how many saints have died horrible deaths, that they endured great suffering, whether because they were martyred or even if they weren't martyred directly, they endured great suffering. [00:11:08] I've been reading the martyrology every morning and I see that very clearly. But also if you read, for example, like a traditional breviary that has the lives of the saint, has a brief life of the saint, one thing I've noticed is that how often when you read the biography, the short biography of saint, it almost always brings up their suffering, their penance, their voluntarily accepting the cross. [00:11:33] That's always a theme that runs through the lives of the saints as they accepted suffering. And that's true, by the Way of St. Therese of Lisu. She did particularly at the end of her life. [00:11:46] And so we don't emphasize that anymore because we don't emphasize penance and sacrifice in the church at all very much anymore. We also don't emphasize it in the lives of our saints. And we don't look to that. We don't look at a saint and say, oh, what's the first thing I think about this person is, oh, the sacrifices they made, the penances they did. That's how they became saints. By the way, people is from penance and sacrifice. But we don't talk about that. We're just like, oh, hey, he played video games. He was a hiker. [00:12:14] That's like somehow that made them holy, those activities. [00:12:19] And that's just that, that's just, that's just silly. In fact, I just, I have to have an aside about video games. [00:12:26] I've. I was a computer programmer for many years. I, you know, my undergrad degree was in computers. I was computer developer, software developer for 15 years before I went more into the Catholic world directly. [00:12:37] I've never, though, been a big fan of video games. I admit it. And here's the reality. [00:12:43] Video games on a whole are more likely to lead you away from a life of holiness than toward a life of holiness. [00:12:51] If you took a thousand young men and had them all play video games regularly, I would say no more than a handful, if even that. [00:13:00] Would it in any way not hinder a life of holiness in their lives if they were playing video games live? That's just. I'm sorry, but I'm just not, I'm not saying video games, playing video games are evil. I'm not saying it can't be done. What I'm saying though is it's an activity that tends towards a life of more self centeredness, of more being, you know, not, not holiness. [00:13:27] By the way, I say the same thing about smartphones just being on, you know, social media. [00:13:31] And I'm on social media a decent amount, but I know that it tends against a life of holiness. That's why I have like a million and one rules in my own, you know, life about how I use social media. And I don't always follow them, but I try because I know they tend against a life of holiness. [00:13:50] But it's definitely true. Video games. So talking about Carlo Acutis, like video games is a part of, of his life, like an important part of his life is just, that's just kind of silly. And it really is actually dangerous because it makes people think, oh, I can just keep playing video games all night long because hey, this canonized saint played video games, so it can't be that bad. That's just simply not, not the case. [00:14:16] So saints, canonized saints historically have always been the main theme. The thread that runs through them is a life of sacrifice, a life of penance. [00:14:29] Now also, let's take a step back. Remember what canonization means. It doesn't simply mean that the person's in heaven. There are a lot of people in heaven who have not been canonized. [00:14:39] A canonized saint is simply the church saying, we think this person's a model that other people should emulate. [00:14:46] We think this is a model for others. That would be a good example. Not somebody who just scraped in and happened to make it in heaven. We're saying, oh yeah, this person happened to make it heaven. No, instead it's a model that we can look towards and that's forgotten. A lot of times, you know, when you criticize maybe a canonization or say maybe that seems a little imprudent that that person was canonized. Whatever. Everybody's like, oh my gosh, you're going against the church they say he's having. You're saying he's in hell. No, that's not what we're saying. It's just simply saying that prudently at least. The church has always selected mostly those who have been, who are models for others, great models for others to be cannis. [00:15:23] So let's talk about actually Carlo Acutis and Pier Giorgio Frasati and what was heroically virtuous about them? What was it? [00:15:33] Are there things in their lives that had them be, you know, deserve to be canonized saints. [00:15:41] Now, first, let's look at Acutus. [00:15:44] And the fact is he was raised in a nominally Catholic family. Know, it was kind of funny. I read where Pope Leo, in the canonization Mass, he. He made a comment about Carlo Acutis living growing up in a family of faith or something like that. And they shot to the family and the mother looked a little uncomfortable because she knew they actually didn't grow. He didn't grow up. He is the one who led them to the faith more than the other way around. [00:16:09] And he had a very, you know, as a. This is a very young person. He had deep devotion and he had a very basic spirituality. [00:16:18] By basic, I mean nuts and bolts. Going to Mass regularly, going to confession regularly. When he was, you know, obviously old enough, praying the rosary, living a life of devotion very early on, and by the way, I saw some liberal Catholics were kind of railing on that life, that simple life of devotion. That's what we're all supposed to be doing is that very basic Catholic devotions like the Mass, like confession, like the Rosary, things like that, adoration, things like that. [00:16:43] And that's not ordinary these days. [00:16:46] Akutas having that deep devotion early on in life is not ordinary. [00:16:51] Another thing that's very interesting about his life is that as a very young person, a young boy, he helped. He basically led an adult, his nanny, to Catholicism. His nanny was a Hindu who was a son of a Brahmin Hindu priest. [00:17:10] And he actively evangelized him. The man's name was Raji, Rajesh Mohur, I think you pronounce it. Apologies if that's incorrect. He explained Catholic teachings to him. [00:17:22] And, you know, he was. It was described as. It was described that he explained him with such sweetness. He talked constantly about the Eucharist and about Jesus. [00:17:31] He told. Told Moher, wherever you go, you may find Jesus present in flesh, soul and body in the tabernacle. [00:17:39] And then a moment that particularly moved Moher was witnessing Carlo's charity. Carlo once gathered up his toys, including his Christmas presents, and asked Mohur to help him sell them at the park to give money to the poor, the poor that were sleeping outside the church during winter. [00:17:58] When Moher saw these actions from such a small child, he said, then I got converted. Now note, Carlo Acutis at this point was 8 years old. He was only 8 and he'd already brought somebody to Catholicism. Can you say that? Can I say that? That is not ordinary. He is not like us. None of us probably brought anybody to the faith at the Age of eight, none of us were giving up our Christmas presents to help the poor. That's another. By the way, when I talk about like threads in the life of all the saints, a major one is penance, another major one is love for the poor. And we'll see that with Frasade here in a minute. Even more. [00:18:32] But Carlocius had this love of the poor from the very early age. So he brought somebody, he brought somebody to the faith at the age of eight and then he end up helping Mohurs. I'm sorry, Mohurs, I cannot pronounce it necessarily right. His mother. [00:18:49] His mother saw this and she also converted. So this is the wife of a Brahmin Hindu priest gets converted by an 8 year old. [00:18:56] This is not ordinary. This is the life of grace. This is somebody who is obviously open to grace, who's open to the way the Holy Spirit is moving him even at a very young age. [00:19:07] And then at the age of 15, he comes down with acute leukemia. One of the two things that are similar about both Acutus and Frasade is they had very terrible diseases that killed him very quickly. [00:19:18] But when he came down with it, he said, I offer my sufferings for the Pope, for the Church, so as not to go to Purgatory and go straight to heaven. [00:19:28] That also is not ordinary. Most of us, when we get just even the slightest physical problem, we complain about it either to our spouse or to anybody who will listen to us or to God. [00:19:38] We feel like it's somehow, you know, keeping us from what we want to be doing when it could very well be a gift from God. [00:19:48] And here's a 15 year old boy taking these sufferings and he's offering them up for the Pope at this time, Pope Benedict. This is 2006 for the church and he understood, he clearly wanted to be a saint because he said he's doing this so he doesn't have to go purgatory and go straight to heaven. That's what our goal should be. By the way, our goal should not be purgatory. If you aim for Purgatory, you might miss and end up in hell. If you aim for heaven, you might miss but still end up in purgatory. [00:20:14] And Carlacus was clearly aiming for heaven. [00:20:19] And note that like his playing of video games and even his development of the website that tracked the. The Eucharistic miracles, I think it was. [00:20:29] There's nothing heroic or extraordinary about them. I did see a hilarious joke online though, where it said the Vatican canonized Carlos Kutis because they believed that creating a functioning website was actually a miracle. If you know anything about the Vatican's website over the years, you'll understand that joke. But seriously though, him being a computer programmer and developing a website for tracking eucharistic miracles, as well as, and definitely his plenty of idioms, that's not. Nothing about that's extraordinary, heroic. That's not what made him a saint. And in fact, Pope Leo at the canonization Mass never mentioned that about him because he understood, I believe, that's not what made Carlocutus a saint. It was his love for the poor. It was his deep devotion to Jesus Christ, very, very early age, his deep devotion to the Eucharist, his evangelization, sharing the faith with others, even at the age of 8. [00:21:26] These are the things that made him a saint. So I would argue that Carlocutus is a saint, should have been canonized. But honestly, I think the marketing of Carlocutus is terrible because it just makes it like, you don't have to change your life to be a saint. And that's not true. You have to radically change your life. That doesn't mean you have to change your job or where you live, you know, a lot of your daily activities. What it does mean is you have to radically change how you do those things. [00:21:57] You might change some of your daily activities if you're not praying at least an hour a day, if you're not going to mass regularly, if you're not, you know, going to confession regularly, praying the rosary every day, things like that. Yeah, you do need to change that. My point though is simply you need to, I need to radically change our lives to be saints. Carlo Acutis radically changed, you know, lived a radical life from very early on. I mean, I don't see how you don't see something extraordinary and saintly about a young boy who lived like Carlocutus did. And so, like, yeah, I definitely think he should be, he should have been canonized saint. I just wish the marketing of him was very different. [00:22:36] Now let's talk about Pier Giorgio Frassati. What was heroically virtuous by him? He's also kind of presented as, hey, he's just a regular guy. He's a saint who's just ordinary. I mean, he, he, he was a hiker, he smoked a pipe. I do think it's funny that the famous, the most well known picture of Frasati, which I have on the thumbnail for this podcast, he's standing at the top of a mountain and he's got a pipe and there are many images of that where they've taken the pipe out of his mouth. I, you know, know some type of weird anti pipe situation. [00:23:10] But was, is that really, is that really who Frasadi was? No. Frasadi had a deep, deep love for the poor. We saw that with Carlo Cuda somewhat, but it's even more apparent with Frasadi. He came from a wealthy family, but he would often give away his coat, his shoes, or money to those in need, sometimes returning home without these items, much to his family's bewilderment. He visited the sick, brought food to hungry families, and paid rent for those who couldn't afford it. He deeply loved the poor. [00:23:42] And this is okay, most of us have not grown up wealthy, aren't wealthy now, and didn't grow up wealthy. I don't think you realize how difficult that is, how extraordinary that is for somebody who grows up wealthy to really have a sense of, I need to serve the poor, I need to give away what I have. I don't care about possessions because the fact is the more possessions you have, the more wealth you have, the more likely you are to be attached to it. That's just a reality. It's a human reality. It's always been true for Saudi grew up with wealth, with possessions, but he never became attached to them. He loved the poor deeply. Also. He publicly stood for Catholicism. [00:24:21] He was arrested during a political demonstration and was beaten by fascist squads for his anti fascist stance. It's funny, just last week we were talking to Jason Jones here on the podcast he was talking about he got arrested at a protest early on in the COVID regime days. And you know, here's for Saudi, he got arrested as well. By the way, listen to the Jason Jones podcast podcasts like the episodes like that. This is just a little aside, do not get a lot of traffic because they're not controversial. They're not talking about, oh, what did Pope Leo say today? What did, you know, Father James Martin do? Or whatever. But I really encourage you. [00:24:56] I think it'll be very encouraging to you and really spur you on to greater acts of charity if you listen to that podcast from last week. But here's Farsadi being arrested for standing up for the faith, even beaten by fascist squads for his anti fascist stance. And then at the age of 24, he contracted polio. [00:25:17] He likely contracted while visiting the poor slums of Turin. [00:25:23] So this is a young man who not only gave his possessions to the poor, he gave his whole life, his body, everything to the poor. In a sense, he's a martyr for the poor because this is how he died, was serving them. [00:25:38] He returned home with a severe headache and fever when it started, but it was the same day his maternal grandmother died. [00:25:47] And because of his humility, he basically deflected attention away from himself because he didn't want to take attention away from the mourning for his grandmother. Even though he literally has polio coming, he's dying. He will be dead within a week or two. I can't remember how long he was sick. It was very short as well, like maybe one to two weeks. [00:26:06] And so he let them mourn it rather than putting attention on himself. In fact, his parents, who were obviously consumed with the details of the funeral of the grandmother, didn't even suspect when he was became down with paralysis two days before the end of his life. His mother kept scolding him for not helping out in during these times, but he couldn't, he literally couldn't move. But because he was so humble, he wasn't complaining about, he wasn't letting others know what was he doing. He was accepting the penance, the sufferings God had given him and offering them up. This is what saints do and this is what Frasade did. [00:26:44] Even in his final agony, Pier Giorgio Frasade's famous thoughts remained with the poor. So I don't know about you, but when I'm sick, my thoughts are mostly focused on me, me and me. I'm thinking, I'm feeling sorry for myself, I'm getting upset. I can't get certain things done. I want attention given to me. That's just the way I am when I'm sick, it's not good. But not for Saadi. When he is like far sicker than I've ever been. Most of it will be about to die. He's sinking of the poor. He handed his sister a packet and wrote a note because it was Friday and that was the day he normally visited them. [00:27:22] So he's about to die, he's suffering agonies and he's thinking, oh no, I'm going to let down the poor that I normally visit. I need to send them a message, I need to send them a note. [00:27:33] And in fact, when he did die on July 4th, I think it's neat as feast day is July 4th for us Americans, it can be something we can have on July 4th. It's holiday here, obviously, Independence Day. But I like having a saint that we can focus on that day as well. [00:27:48] His family expected a small, quiet funeral because it's not like they, you know, he was well known in the world or anything like that. However, thousands of Turin's poor showed up at the funeral. [00:28:03] People that family didn't even know, didn't know he had helped. They came to pay their respects. Revealing the extent of his hidden charitable work. [00:28:11] This is a man who deeply loved the poor, who served themselves sacrificially. [00:28:15] This is not ordinary. [00:28:18] Fiero Giorgio Frasati was not an ordinary person. [00:28:22] He was extraordinary. He was a saint. This is what we're called to be. Yes. He lived an ordinary life in many ways, from the outside. So did Carlo Acutis. He lived these ordinary lives on the outside, but they were not ordinary on the inside. That's. I think my main point, I'm trying to say is that these two men, these two young people, were great saints, but not. [00:28:45] They were not ordinary. [00:28:47] They were extraordinary, and we should strive to be like that as well. They weren't saints for the reasons that they're marketed as saints. That's my. I'll say it again, that's my main problem with these canonizations isn't. The canonizations isn't a dispute whether or not they were saintly. [00:29:04] My problem is the way both of them are marketed particularly acute. It's like, oh, they're just like us. No, they are not. [00:29:11] They are greater than us, and we should do everything we can to be more like them. [00:29:17] Now, there were some other concerns. I won't talk about this for very long, but I just want to mention there were some other concerns about the canonizations. For example, with acute. Some people are saying they believe that somebody, you know, the church should wait for at least 50 years before somebody's canonized. I respect that. In fact, I think I've even said that. I think that's a good rule to have. And I think that's a. I wouldn't have no problem with that rule. Now note that's not how it's always been done. St Francis of Assisi was canonized before 50 years were up after his death. So it's not like it's some traditional thing that was jettisoned with Vatican ii. I do think. I do feel. I know the reason the Vatican wants to canonize all these recent people is because they. They kind of buy the. [00:29:57] The. I wouldn't say a lie, but they buy the idea, the narrative that you can't identify with people unless that, you know, you're. You're. [00:30:06] Unless they're. At the same time they look like you. All that stuff. That. That's ridiculous. You can. I identify very much with St. Francis of Assisi. And my life is nothing like his. I mean, I love him very much though. Same with, you know, Maxwell Colby. Saint Mary Magdalene. I have nothing. Saint Mary Magdalene. But you know, I think she's one of my favorite saints. Saint Therese of Le Sue I have nothing in common with. She's one of my favorite saints. So I don't really buy that whole argument, but I do think that's why they're doing it. I do think there is some wisdom though, in waiting. [00:30:35] Take a little bit of time. It's not like the person is waiting Church canonism until they get to heaven, they're already there interceding for us. There can be a local cultist, there can be a devotion to the person, and it just builds up over time. [00:30:48] Another criticism I saw about the acute scandalization was the mother's influence. They basically were kind of thought was unseemly that the mother had pushed so much for the boys canonization. First of all, she's an Italian mother, of course she thinks her boy's a saint. That's just the way they are. And so like, you know, the fact that she, when her son died, that she's pushing him to be a saint is just first, that's normal. Second of all, you need to learn the history of canonizations. [00:31:13] Many, many canonizations in the history of church have been very political, have been very much pushed. I mean, it's a reality that a lot of the higher percentage of the canonizations are people who had a lot of moneyed interests behind them. [00:31:29] What I mean by that is they had maybe a religious or a prominent religious order, or maybe they were a high political office, something like that, who could push for them and really promote them as a potential saint. So the fact that his mother was pushing for him to be a saint, that's not a problem. Because trust me, it's not like she's the only person who's pushed for a family member to become a saint. [00:31:51] But I do think the fact that these miracles happen after his death very quickly and the fact that there has been a growing organic devotion towards him, it's not a big. Don't think that his mother pushing for it is any big deal. [00:32:05] So I just want to say that I do have concerns. I'll be the first to admit I do have concerns about some of the more recent canonizations, at the very least about this, their prudence. I mean, a perfect example is the canonization of Paul vi, Pope Paul vi. I mean, there is no objective way you can Say his papacy, his pontificate was a successful pontificate. Millions of people left the church. Disarray, disorder, confusion reigned during his pontificate. So idea that we should hold him up again, remember, can and I saying this, not just saying the person's in heaven, it's kind of saying they're a model look up to. [00:32:43] I think that's, that's kind of ridiculous. I think honestly that was done for political reasons in order to canonize Vatican ii, so to speak. [00:32:51] So I'm not saying that there aren't some issues with modern canonizations. I am, I'm saying, though, in the case of Carlo Kutis and Piero Giorgio Frassati, the issue is more with the marketing of these saints than I believe, than it is with them themselves. I do believe they are both holy, were very holy men. They were extraordinary, not ordinary, and they should have been canonized. [00:33:11] Okay, let me look at the live chat here again. Tuesday afternoons I try to do the live podcast and you're free to jump in on YouTube or Facebook and we'll try to get your comments and put them up here. So, okay, first question is the good fight with Tony L. Says, so are canonizations infallible? You want to weigh in on the question? Jimmy Akin promotes the minority view that they are not. Okay. [00:33:32] What I would say is. Read the book. [00:33:35] I think it's. The editor is Peter Kwasniewski and it's like, and I think it's called like Arcanizations Infallible or something like that. I have it sitting over there. I don't remember the title of it. Just look up something like Canonizations Infallibility, Infallible. And Peter Kwesniewski is the editor. Because what it does, it gives arguments for and against and it gives scholarly, in depth, you know, research articles for and against whether or not canonizations are infallible. I honestly don't have a strong opinion one way or the other. [00:34:06] I think it's plausible that they're infallible. I also think it's possible they're not infallible. If you put a gun away, I said pick one or the other. I think I would say they're not infallible, but honestly, I don't hold that strongly. That's just a personal opinion, mine. It is not a defined teaching of the church that canonizations are infallible, though sometimes you'll hear people say that's not true. But is the common opinion. [00:34:32] The most common opinion is that. And I think we should respect the most common opinion is that Canonizations are infallible. [00:34:41] But again, I don't have a one way or the other opinion on it. [00:34:46] Mark Scannel says the story of Carlos selling his gifts for the poor and offering up his sufferings is the first thing that should be discussed about him. Not the ordinary stuff like video games. Yes, exactly, Mark. That's really what I'm trying to say here is I saw so many articles that talked about, okay, played video games, he build a website. [00:35:03] You know, he's. It shows that saints aren't perfect or something like that. No, it's. It's the life he led of. I think, personally, I think what should lead is. Is his conversion of converting his nanny and her mother and his. And his nanny's mother, but also giving his selling gift for the poor and things like that as a young boy. That's extraordinary stuff. That's the same. That's the stuff of sainthood. [00:35:24] Okay. MB says, I agree that marketing has created the opposite effect on many people, and it's frankly offensive to his honor. Yeah, I mean, that's. That's what bothers me. [00:35:32] And B, thanks for bringing that up is that I feel like Carlo Acutis in heaven wants people to strive for holiness. And so when we all say, oh, he's just like us, he's just ordinary. And what that does is it makes us not feel like we have to radically change our lives. [00:35:49] I think Carla Kutas is saying, no, you do need to radically change your life. [00:35:54] You do need to live an extraordinary life in ordinary circumstances. I think that's the more important thing is to note is that Carlo Kutis and Piero Giorgio Frasati lived in ordinary circumstances. They didn't found religious orders. They weren't kings or anything like that. They weren't emperors like Blessed Carl or anything like that. They live in ordinary circumstances, but they lived extraordinary lives. That's what we have to emphasize. That's what we should lead with, frankly. [00:36:19] Dave Earnhardt says, you gave us the reasons they should be saints. The Vatican sure didn't. I honestly, I don't know. The Vatican themselves. Like the marketing I saw wasn't from the Vatican. It was just from Catholic media, supporters of Carlocutus, his, you know, people who followed him, stuff like that. That's where I saw it. Perhaps the Vatican didn't do a good job either. I don't know. [00:36:43] I can't say that. But definitely, though, there are reasons they should be saints, definitely the reason they should be canonized, but it's not the reasons you're going to hear about in most places, so. [00:36:53] Okay, I think I'm going to wrap it up there. I appreciate everybody who joined the live chat. [00:36:57] And I would just say Saint Carla Cutis, pray for us. [00:37:01] Saint Pierre Giorgio Frassade, pray for us that we might live extraordinary lives. [00:37:07] Okay, everybody, until next time. God love you, Sam.