Catholics Support Harris?

[00:00:15] A recent poll showed that Catholics, including mass attending Catholics, favor Kamala Harris over Donald Trump in the upcoming presidential election. What's going on here? We're going to talk about today on Crisis Point. Hello, I'm Eric Simmons, your host, editor in chief of Crisis magazine. Before we get started, as always, I want you to smash that, like, button, subscribe to the channel, let other people know about it. I appreciate everybody who does that. I really appreciate when you do subscribe, because that way, you know, when our videos, our podcasts come out. You can follow us on social media at crisismag. You can also subscribe to our email newsletter. It's probably the best way to keep informed what's going on at Crisis magazine. Just go to crisismagazine.com putting your email address, and we will send you our articles every morning, usually two articles each morning. Okay, so let's go ahead and get started here. [00:01:04] Well, today is September 10, and tonight is the first debate. I'm not sure if it's gonna be the only debate, but it's the first debate between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. And so, obviously, we're in the, in the heart of the election season. And what I want to talk about was not to debate tonight. I mean, okay, let me just, a quick aside. [00:01:26] I simply don't understand people who will be affected one way or another by the debate tonight. To me, it seems like a voter, an educated voter would do their own research and find out, okay, which ones, which, which candidates policies do I favor? Which even personality do I favor? Because personality does matter, like when you're dealing with foreign leaders and whatnot. [00:01:50] And so that would matter much more than this contrived debate situation in which really, it's just two people trying to get off zingers. And, you know, the questions are never, they're always based upon what the, usually the mainstream media want you to talk about rather than what really matters. So I think it's, I don't get it. Now, that being said, I do know it does matter. People do change their mind based upon, or at least they may go from undecided to decided based upon these debates. So. And I'm also not against debates. Real debates would be great where they talk about policy issues and they really delve into what's going on in this country, but we know that's not going to happen. Neither of these two candidates, Trump or Harris, are really people who are masters of a debate in the classical format. So I can see JD Vance crushing something like that, but not Trump or Kamala so I want to talk about a poll that just came out, EWTN, and I think it was. And who else? Real clear politics wherever. They commissioned a poll of 1000 Catholics. Well, actually, it was interesting because if you read it, it said, we're interested in people who might have a catholic background or a connection to Catholicism, even if they do not currently consider Catholicism their religion. You currently consider yourself catholic or partially catholic in any way. So obviously, that's a little bit of an interesting way to word it. This takes anybody who self identifies in any way as a Catholic in this poll, and there were some interesting results that came from it. Now, before we get into the poll, I will note that Donald Trump does seem to be explicitly going after Catholics. He recently, they set up his campaign, or somebody set up a Catholics for Trump organization that he has endorsed. [00:03:49] And he just, on this past Sunday, the feast of the nativity of Our lady, he, he had on all his social media channels, he posted a image of Arleigh Guadalupe and said, happy birthday, Mary. So, which was kind of odd, to be honest, because obviously Trump isn't Catholic, but he, and it's really only Catholics and orthodox that would celebrate the birthday of Our lady. But nonetheless, whether you want to see it cynically or not, it clearly is directed towards Catholics. You know, our lay of Guadalupe is a catholic image, obviously. And so it seems that the campaign, at least the Trump campaign, is reaching out to Catholics. And according to this poll, they probably need to do a little bit more because the nutshell version, I'm going to pull up some of the questions from the poll here in a second, is that 50% of the respondents of this poll support Kamala Harris, whereas 43% support Trump and 6% are undecided. So 50% of the Catholics polled support Harris, 43% Trump, 6% undecided. And by the way, that 1% are people who are voting for a third party, other candidate. And what's also interesting is that Harris leads in every age group. [00:05:19] Every single age group they polled, Harris leads. And her smallest lead is actually in the Gen Z Catholics, the 18 to 29 Catholics. [00:05:31] Now, the quick thing that people will say when they hear this as well, these are people who aren't even practicing Catholics. So what does it really matter? [00:05:42] They're not really Catholics in any way, shape or form. But the truth is, the poll also showed that Harris leads in every category of mass attending Catholics except for daily Mass attender. Mass attender. So the different breakdown, let me find this real quick. [00:06:04] The breakdown of mass attainments. How often do you attend mass. [00:06:09] Where can I not find this exciting podcast here? When I look through. [00:06:19] Oh, I missed it. I must miss it. They had it like, you attended daily more than. Oh, here we go. [00:06:27] How often do you tend, aside from weddings, funerals, how often you tend maths? Daily, only 3%. [00:06:34] 30 people out of the thousand attend daily. More than once a week was 8.9%. Yeah, I'm gonna actually pull this up. If you can't see it, don't worry about it. I will walk through it. [00:06:46] Once a week, 31%. [00:06:49] And then once or twice a month, 15%. A few times a year, 32%. Once a year, 9%. So essentially, what this says is 57% of the respondents in this poll are not practicing Catholics because obviously, one of the minimal definitions of practicing Catholic is that you go to mass at least once a week. And so 57% of these people are not practicing Catholics. However, if even that being said, in every single one of these categories, except for daily Mass attendance, that's those 30 people. Harris is in the lead over Trump. So even in the category of people who go to Mass each week, not daily, but each week, once a week, they still favor Harris. Those Catholics still favor Harris. So it's not as simple as just saying, oh, well, they don't attend Mass, so who cares as far as, like, classifying them as Catholics? And so we see a number of things from this poll I wanted to kind of pull out. First of all. [00:07:48] Well, first of all, I mentioned, you know, how often they attend Mass. Another interesting point is, what is your party registration or affiliation? Of the thousand Catholics, 44% are Democrat and 37% are republican, 18% are independent or other. So you're going to see they're going to favor Harris, obviously, because they're Democrats, more Democrats. But that shows that more of these Catholics are actually Democrats. Another interesting question is, and this is important, we want to see in a minute, in the 2024 presidential election, who would you favor? Like I said, 50%. 501 out of 1000 favor Harris, 40. About 43% favor Trump. [00:08:34] Only ten. Only 1% favor someone else. [00:08:39] And that's important, and we'll talk about why that's important in a second. So this is not a case of a third party, an RFK or some other, like, libertarian party or american solidarity parties is attracting voters, catholic voters. No. Basically, almost everybody is selecting either Harris or Trump. Now, 6% are still undecided, which I also think it's weird to be undecided at this point because it's pretty clear the differences between the two. [00:09:07] I mean, I guess it does actually make sense now I think about it, that you still could be undecided because you might not like either of them and might just be deciding, am I going to vote or not vote? I'm going to just throw in a third party vote or something like that. So 6% are undecided, but of the undecideds, more actually favor Harris. [00:09:25] Now, the important question, I think, is what one issue is most important deciding your vote this November. And for Catholics in this poll, a full 51% said the economy, jobs, inflation, interest rates. So something related to finances. [00:09:42] And this tracks very commonly with what most voters say, the economy. But what's bizarre about this is typically when voters care the most about the economy and the economy is not doing well, which it's not, voters don't go for the incumbent. [00:10:00] So even though voters are saying, these catholic voters are saying the economy matters the most, why would they pick the person who literally is second command of our current economy, which is so bad? [00:10:14] That doesn't seem to make sense. That seems to be a bit of a dichotomy in people's minds that they care the most about the economy, yet they're going to pick the incumbent under who essentially incumbent. I realize she's not the president, but whatever, whatever Biden is, she's essentially the incumbent. And the economy has been terrible for a long time, but yet they're still going to vote for her. [00:10:39] Border security, immigration was the second highest at 13%, and actually abortion was the third highest. [00:10:45] Almost 10% of the voters felt like abortion. However, it just says abortion. It does not say pro abortion or anti abortion. It just says abortion. So this would include a Catholic, at least in theory, who is pro abortion and finds it the most important issue. [00:11:03] And so when you go then to another question that I thought was very interesting is I'm going to go through a few of these and then we're going to talk about kind of what this means. [00:11:13] Who should be responsible for setting abortion policy, state legislatures, the federal government, or neither. I think this is an interesting question. The reason I think this is interesting is because it is a debate. I do think this is a debatable topic. Who should set abortion policy? After all, laws against murder, against rape, against things like that, are state laws in our country. They're not federal laws. When you, when you commit one of those crimes in this country, you're, you're charged at the state level, you're not charged at the uM, or city level or county level, wherever, but you're not charged at the federal level. So I think there is a debate to be had now, I think because of the history of abortion in this country and kind of, I think a federal amendment is something that ultimately is desired. But the point is, I understand this being debate. So good question. Well, 34% say state, 29% say federal. [00:12:10] Now, if you're a math whiz like me, you immediately might think, wait a second, that doesn't end up. Add up to 100. [00:12:20] If it's not state. If it's not federal. [00:12:22] Well, what's the third option? The third option was neither. [00:12:26] And actually, the most people, 37% of the catholic respondents, said neither the federal government nor the state legislature should set abortion policy. [00:12:40] I mean, I don't know. That's probably the most scandalous. That's more scandalous than 50% supporting Harris is the fact that 38% most Catholics. The plurality of Catholics in this poll thought that nobody should set abortion policy. In other words, it should just be allowed. There should be no abortion policy. [00:13:01] That means freedom to, like, you know, kill a baby up to nine months, you know, whatever. It blows the mind that they would say. Cause I don't think many were thinking, oh, I think the city should set it. Maybe there's a couple people who thought that, or the county. But basically, what they're saying is none. So this is, I think, the most shocking answer among Catholics in this poll is how many thought that neither the state nor the federal government should set abortion policy. [00:13:29] Now, another interesting question that's not really political, but it's. It's very fascinating is they said, do you believe in the real presence of the Eucharist? And, of course, this is the famous question from the Pew research study in 2019 that showed 69% believe that the Eucharist was a symbol and it was not the true real presence. Now, I don't know exactly how the question was asked in the Pew study versus this one, because, remember, how a question is asked is very important in what answers you get. And so how they asked this question, I likely was different into. Than what the pew. But maybe not. I don't know. Well, 52% said, yes, the transformed bread and wine are the buying blood of Christ and not symbols. So that's much better than the 30% that said it in the. In the 2019. And then, however, 32% said they are not and that they're just symbols. And 16% said, not sure. They just kind of threw up their hands. I don't know. What's the real presence? Maybe they had no idea what you're even talking about. I think that's very possible, very plausible. So we still have a situation where almost half of Catholics self identify, on some level, don't believe in the real presence, which is a fundamental teaching of the catholic faith. It's not really a political question, but it is important. And it does reflect something, though, politically, like, when we're defining who is a Catholic, you know, whether or not they believe in the real presence, I think, is part of that. [00:14:57] And so I think. Let me see if there's any other question. Oh, another thing that matters for in a minute is they ask, are you male or female? 54% were female and 46% were male. And we're going to see why this matters here in a second. [00:15:15] Okay, so what we see here is that Harris has support among self identified Catholics, and she has support among every age group. She has support among all Catholics, even those who attend Mass, unless they're daily mass participants. I think. What was the numbers for daily Mass? I think it said, yeah, these daily mass attendees, only 30 of them in the entire survey, support Trump, 55% to 30%. So overwhelmingly for Trump over Harris if they attend daily Mass, but even weekly Mass scores still favor Harris over Trump. [00:15:55] Another thing I thought was very interesting was female catholic voters overwhelmingly support Trump. Harris more than male, 56% of female vote. The female Catholics, 50% supported Harris, and 37% supported Trump. Among males, 49% supported Trump. Only 43% supported Harris. So we see a huge gender gap among Catholics. Female Catholics are much more likely to support Harris than Trump, and males are more likely to support Trump, but not by as much. [00:16:38] And I think that that's something that we need to realize. Now, the question becomes, why is this? Why is it that Catholics, even macedonian Catholics, support Harris over Trump? Now, one thing I think we can eliminate, something that's a big conversation piece among people like you and me, people who would follow crisis, write for crisis, listen to crisis, whatever. [00:17:01] I don't think this has anything to do, of course, with Trump's support for IVF and his softening pro life stance, because somebody who where pro life matters to them, they're not going to vote for Harris. They're not going to support Harris because Trump's weak on it. Let's be honest. They're going to go third party or not vote. And we saw very few people, I think it was 1% are voting somebody supporting somebody else, and 6% are undecided. I don't think many of them fall in this category either. So Trump support, according to this poll. Now, I'm not 100% sure when the poll was done actually conduct, it might have been before he came out in support of IVF, like funding of IVF. I'm not sure about that. But he would been weak on abortion during this campaign compared to the past. But let's be honest, that's not affecting him here. Nobody's going to Harris because Trump is weak on, on abortion. They might leave Trump and go third party or not vote, but they're not going to Harris. So that's not going to be a reason. [00:18:01] I also think that, like, so the question is, why is it? I think one thing is that we have to keep in mind, this is something that I find a lot of Trump supporters do not want to recognize. And it's just a reality. A lot of people despise Donald Trump. A lot of Americans despise him. They have, remember, they have been told for how many years now, eight plus years that he is literally Hitler, that he is a russian agent, that he is committed acts of treason, that he is a felon, that he is an awful person. I mean, just basically he wants to kill your cat, which, considering the news that came out yesterday about Springfield, Ohio, and what they're, what the immigrants are doing to cats, that's kind of ironic. [00:18:55] But he's going to, he's going to institute, Trump is going to institute a, what's that stupid show that everybody always talks about, the show with the ladies wearing the weird things. He's going to institute this misogynist dystopia the second he becomes president. As if he wasn't president. Right. This does have an impact on people. People really are swayed by that. So even if they don't like Harris, even if they think Harris is a joke, they know Biden is incapable of doing anything that impacts how, what they think about Trump. [00:19:26] And I think we cannot underestimate that. I think there is a sizable percentage of these catholic voters supporting Harris who just despise Trump, and they literally will vote for anybody but Trump. [00:19:36] They think Trump is an existential threat to this country. [00:19:42] And they think that because they've been told that over and over again, because after all, Catholics, especially Catholics who aren't attending mass each week, they are as susceptible to propaganda as anybody. It's not like when you get baptized, you get a shield against propaganda. Now, if you're attending the sacraments, if you are praying every day regularly, if you're going to confession regularly, I think the number, the confession numbers, by the way, let me find that real quick. [00:20:09] They did ask how often you go to confession and it was 16% go at least once a month, which I think is great, 22% several times a year, which is good, 19% once a year, which is minimal. And then about 42% attend less than once a year or never. And so that's a high percentage. Don't go to confession. If you go to confession regularly, if you are praying regularly, if you are going receiving, you know, going to mass regularly, things of that and taking your faith seriously, you are, you are going to be protected against propaganda of all sides. [00:20:44] But let's be honest, most Catholics aren't doing that. We see that from the poll, and so the propaganda will seep. And even if you do all this stuff, you still will probably be impacted by propaganda. It's just human nature. We can't help it. All of us are on some level, and the propaganda has been relentless that Donald Trump is enemy number one. We have to make sure he does not become president. So I think that is definitely a big part of it. And it tells us something about the fact that Catholics, and it pains me to say this, it pains me to say this, Catholics are no different than non Catholics when it comes to how they live their life. [00:21:23] I'll say that again, even though it's painful to say Catholics are no different than non Catholics when it comes to how they live their life. And I just think that is a reality we have to recognize. Even mass attending Catholics are a little different than the population around us, than non Catholics. And I think that's a real scandal, and it's something catholic leaders should recognize and realize. We have to change this. [00:21:58] Catholics should be. Catholics should be as different in our culture that the Amish are in our culture. Nobody thinks the Amish are as are, like, just like the rest of the surrounding culture. I'm not saying we do the exact same things that they do, although many things they do. It wouldn't be bad if we did. [00:22:18] What I'm saying, though, is we should be as foreign in this culture now. I don't think that was true 100 years ago. 200 years ago, it wasn't true in, like, you know, Catholic Europe during Christendom. You're going to be like the culture, because the culture is Catholic, but our culture today is so anti Catholic, so contrary to Catholicism, you should stick out like a sore thumb. If you're a Catholic, you should really appear odd and strange and weird, to use the term of the day. You should appear weird to those around you. [00:22:51] I think that's just the reality, because if you're going to mass each week, hopefully more often. If you're going to confession once a month, if you're praying, if you're living your life and saying, okay, I'm going to practice the virtues, I'm going to avoid vice, I'm going to live penitentially. I'm going to mortify myself. All these things. [00:23:10] You're not going to be like the people around you. It's not a matter of saying, I want to not be like them. It's more a matter of saying, I'm going to be like Christ. I'm going to try to live like Christ. Well, that's going to make you outside the culture. But the reality is that's just simply not the case. That's not what's going on. And so it should not surprise us that Catholics are going to be like everybody else when it comes to voting. Now, actually, it looks like Catholics are supporting Harris more than the general population because most polls, yes, by the way, I should have made this disclaimer from the beginning. Every poll is a lie on some level, but I do think they give us certain information. I don't think, for example, a poll done by EWTN is going to be a lie that's trying to support Harris or something like that. [00:23:55] But the fact is, in most polls, we're seeing a neck and neck Trump ahead. Things like that. This poll actually shows Harris ahead. So in some ways, the Catholics are being different, but by voting for the most anti catholic candidate possible. [00:24:09] Okay, so that's something to keep in mind. But I do think there's something else going on here. [00:24:18] Picture your typical catholic parish, what Father Robert McTeague calls St. Typicals in suburbia, or St. Suburbia, with your typical pastor, your typical associate pastor, your typical. Everything about it is just your average catholic parish. You know, you, you know them, I know them. Hopefully, you don't go to that parish. But you know of one, I'm picturing one in my head, a very specific one I live near. I won't give it up, the name, but it's one eye picture is a typical. But it's not, you know, it's the reason I. It's. It's the one close, very close to me because they're all over the place. [00:24:56] What is the driving message at that parish? At St. Typical's? What is the driving message? [00:25:08] Be nice. [00:25:10] That is the gospel according to St. Typical's. Be nice. That's what you hear in the homilies. That's what's driven into your skull. That's what they hear in catechism. It's be nice. It's not take up your cross and follow me. It's not, okay. Mortify the flesh. It's not you need to repent. It's not you're a sinner who deserves hell, and you need to change the course of your life. It's not you need to go out and convert the nations to Jesus Christ our Lord. It's not that the whole, the whole world is against us. And because Satan is the prince of this world and we need to fight against it, we need to stand up for Christ our king, and we need to bring Christ into the marketplace. [00:25:54] No, it's be nice. [00:25:59] It has nothing to do with, don't condemn abortion. Don't condemn transgenderism. Don't condemn the lies of the secular world. Don't resist the narratives that are given to us every day by our elites. It's be nice. And if you were going by that gospel of be nice, which of the two is perceived to be the better candidate? [00:26:29] Kamala Harris or Donald Trump? [00:26:32] I didn't say which is the nicer. I said which is perceived to be the better candidate? Under the gospel of be nice, it's clearly Kamala Harris B, is perceived as the nicer of the two. [00:26:46] She has policies to like. You know, she's going to help pay for your college, you pay off your college loan. She's going to help these poor immigrants. She's going to help these women who are in need. She's going to help so many people. What's Donald Trump going to do? He's going to be mean. I mean, just look at his tweets. Clearly he's a mean person. [00:27:06] He's going to make you pay for your college loans. He's going to restrict women from having abortion. He's going to be awful to homosexuals and put them in jail. He's going to do all these terrible things. [00:27:19] It doesn't matter if it's true or not. Remember, what matters is perception for most people when it comes to voting, and the perception is Donald Trump is mean, Kamala Harris is nice. And the gospel according to St. Typical's that gets Kamala Harris to vote. So even though. So the scandal, the fact that mass attending, weekly mass attending Catholics are more likely to vote for Harris than Trump, I think can be boiled down to that. That the gospel of the average parish is just be nice. [00:27:54] Okay? I just, I saw this a be nice and get vaccinated, as one of our commenters said. [00:28:03] But that, that's what we're dealing with here. If we had a church where we were proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ, repent and believe in the good news, we were condemning sin, condemning heresy, talking about the vanity of this world as opposed to the beauty and wonderfulness of heaven, we wouldn't have people thinking, Kamala Harris is a legitimate option for president, United States. And I think that's really what it comes down to. [00:28:37] The catholic gospel has been reduced to being nice. And when that's your gospel, Kamala Harris wins. That's just the way it is. And I think that's true in a lot of, not just Catholics, but I think it's true for a lot of Americans. They just have a distaste of Donald Trump because he comes across as meandheen to them. [00:28:54] Whether that, again, doesn't matter if it's true or not. What matters is perception. That's the perception. Now, I want to finish with something. I want to be clear about something. [00:29:04] I am not saying that if you are a practicing Catholic, you must vote for Donald Trump. I'm not saying that. What I am saying, though, if you're a practicing Catholic, you must not vote for Kamala Harris. I think that is clear. Kamala Harris is clearly the worst of two evils. Now, I do think there is an argument to be made. It's not one I am, I am accepting as the argument for me this election season more than likely, and that is because of the fact that the Republican Party has abandoned the unborn in a lot of ways. Donald Trump has said he's going to do something intrinsically evil, like pay for IVF treatments. [00:29:46] Then I can understand Catholic saying, I can't vote for Trump. But you're not going to vote for Harris. You're just saying I can't vote for Trump. Okay, I understand that argument. I've made that argument in the past myself. I don't think that argument is a good prudential decision this election, but it is a legitimate prudential decision. So the fact is that if the Catholics who were polled in this were true practicing Catholics who had been formed by the teachings of the Catholic Church, formed by the tradition of the Catholic Church, and really understood their faith, you would have 0% for Harris, and then you have the rest of them divided between Trump and some third party candidate, maybe, or not voting or something like that, but it would be probably more Trump. But still, you'd have that. I can accept that. Because then we're talking about a debate between prudential options, a flawed candidate in Trump, but far superior to Harris, the other one that the two that are most likely to, more likely to win, or definitely one of those two are going to win, versus a third party candidate that's not going to win but is actually better on the issues. All those things. That's a prudential debate. This is a moral debate. Now, though, when we're saying you're going to vote for Harris. And so ultimately, I think we have a lot of work to do. I've been saying that a lot lately. We have a lot of work to do. [00:31:19] I don't think the solution, by the way, is for pastors to get up and tell everybody to vote for Trump. I think it's a much longer term issue than that. I think what pastors have to do is they need to start preaching Christ and him crucified. They need to start preaching the fullness of the catholic faith. They need to condemn sin. They need to condemn heresy. They need to talk about what our duties are as citizens. They need to talk about our need for penance and prayer in our own lives. I think if they do that, then what happens is these election decisions become, they become, they're solved. Because what happens is Catholics just refuse to vote for somebody like Harris, and then the political parties see that and they sort of say, hey, if I'm going to get these Catholics who are becoming a growing population and they're hardcore in their beliefs, I better go along with what they're saying. I better, I better make sure my policies are in keeping with that. That's the real long term solution. I'm not saying a pastor can't talk about the election. I'm just saying that that's not the long term solution. All it will do is it might swing the needle, like, for a few people, but ultimately, we're just back in the same problem four years from now. The real solution is preaching Christ and him crucified, living out the catholic faith, preaching the fullness of the faith, educating our people. I guarantee you the whole IVF debacle is a great example of this. I think there's probably a more than 90% chance Trump does not understand how IVF works. And I think there's a really good chance that more than 95% of Americans don't understand how IVF, IVF works. Even the people who get IVF, which is a large number of people, I found. [00:33:04] But IVF is, of course, if you're, if you're a well catechized Catholic, you know it's immoral. Every single time IVF is immoral. [00:33:14] Most Catholics don't even know that. And so these are the type of things that pastors need to do. Catechize, evangelize. And then what we see is Catholics. We won't have these awful polls that show that more catholic support in anti catholic, pro baby killing, pro transgenderism, pro war, pro just illegal immigration through the roof, all these awful things that Catholics cannot support. She supports and enthusiastically. [00:33:49] If we really preach the gospel, people like her won't be supported anymore. [00:33:54] Okay, so I'm going to wrap it up there. I appreciate everybody listening in. And I would just say that this election, if you have a catholic friend, family member, who is leaning towards Kamala Harris, at least explain to her or him why she is not a legitimate option for Catholics. You don't even have to push Trump. Just explain why she is simply is not an option for Catholics to support. I think if you do that, but, like, realize you probably got a lot of catechesis going on before that in order for that to happen. So. Okay. We'll continue to pray and fast for our country. [00:34:32] We really need to do penance for our country. That's the only way through. [00:34:38] It's not through political means. It's going to be through spiritual means. And I'm hoping what this election does is it shows us those spiritual, the spiritual need we have in our country. So continue to pray. Do the novenas various, you know, Cardinal Burke and others have, have these novenas. Do these novenas. Continue to pray. September is the month of our latest sorrows. Do novena or our latest sorrows, whatever it takes, just pray, pray, pray, pray for our country that, you know, we can, we can turn around. Cause we're obviously going the wrong direction. We can turn around. Okay, that's until. That's it for now. Until next time, everybody. God love.