Baseball and Catholicism (Guest: Kevin Wells)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreigning day, Kevin. [00:00:15] Speaker B: Happy opening day, Eric. [00:00:17] Speaker A: Yes. So today on Craig's Point, we're going to talk about baseball, but we're specifically going to talk about the connection between baseball and Catholicism, living the Catholic faith. And Kevin is the person, perfect person for this. He's a writer for Crisis, one of our best, absolute best. He's written a number of great books, and we've had him on before. We're going to have him on again. But most importantly for today is he actually was an mlb, A Major League baseball reporter for the Tampa Bay Rays for a number of years. And so we just want to talk. We both have a deep love of baseball, and I think we both in our families have connected it to the practice of virtues, the practice of living the Catholic faith and, and all of that stuff. So. So I appreciate. I kind of did threw this together last minute, I admit, but I appreciate you coming on Kevin. [00:01:01] Speaker B: We're talking baseball. It's a joy. I wanted to be here. [00:01:04] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. So I mean, it, it. I was telling you right before we got on live in Cincinnati, you know, which is where I'm from, Opening day just hits different. It's a, it's a. Literally, it's a city holiday. The, the. The streets are packed downtown around the stadium. There's a, There's a parade, there's a party. I mean, it's a huge. Even if the Reds are terrible and nobody shows up, the game too. Opening day is packed, it's sold out, and there are tens of thousands of people just lining the streets just to celebrate baseball. So I have that in my. That was why I brought. Was grow up with. So it's something now I think. You are Orioles, right? Baltimore. [00:01:44] Speaker B: My whole life. [00:01:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, so now did you take on the Nationals at all when they came. [00:01:48] Speaker B: Into D.C. not a single cell in my body did. [00:01:52] Speaker A: You are a true Orioles fan. Because I was living in D.C. when the Nationals came into town. And so my son and I, that, that was like my son's home team in a sense. I mean, he reads the number one, but he really took. And, and so in 2019 when they won the series, my son and I were watching it and it was a big deal. We really were. Were happy for him. And so Nationals is kind of like a secondary team for me. I have like the Reds and I have some secondary teams. The Rays are actually one of them because we used to live outside Tampa Bay. And then also the, the Nationals because. And it's a funny thing. I keep track of all the games I'VE ever been to on an app. And the Nationals, for some reason, always win. I mean, they're like nine and one in all the games I've been to, whereas the Reds are like, I don't know, 19 and 50 or something like that when I go to them. So my kids, when the Nationals come to town, they're just like, don't go to the game, dad, because then we're not gonna win. So. So. But these are the type of things you talk about with your kids. So have you always, like. Were you always a baseball fan? Like, growing up, did you play ball and things like that? [00:02:56] Speaker B: From out of the crib? From out of the crib. Yeah, I. You know, I guess I'm like the Canadian version of hockey. I. I had an older brother, Danny, and really, you know, from my earliest memories were going to our sidey yard and playing catch with the baseball. He. I always had my spot under the. The basketball hoop. And he got. He was on the other side of the fence. And we would play until. And this is, this is true. We play catch until sundown. We get called in for dinner. We'd have dinner real quick and we'd be right outside playing. So, yeah, my whole life, I grew up playing baseball. All my brothers did. There's six Wells boys. We all played high school baseball at the Matha Catholic High School, which is a. Yeah, it's a good athletic high. [00:03:39] Speaker A: School in D.C. yeah. [00:03:41] Speaker B: Yeah. So we. Yeah, it's. It's part of our. It's part of our fabric. Like, all my brothers will be. Will be watching today's Toronto Baltimore game up in Toronto at opening day. And, yeah, it's just. I mean, we love all sports, but baseball in the hierarchy is number one. [00:03:59] Speaker A: Yeah. My wife, when we got. Before we got married, she. I found out, you know, she's. She's a big baseball fan. I was just telling my kids recently that all of their great grandparents and all of their grandparents, and of course, both the parents are all Reds fans. Like, literally, it's the entire family tree going back about as far as we can know. And so she's a huge baseball fan, but. And she was like, I don't like football, though. I don't want my sons playing football. And I was like, that's fine. If you accept baseball as the number one sport, we'll be fine. And so she is as big a baseball fan as I am, but she could care less about the other sports. I like basketball and some other sports, but. So, yeah, it's, it's. It like, growing up, I played a lot. I. I wasn't very good. I was not very good at baseball. That was just not. I loved it. I played soccer. I was actually better at soccer, but I mean, baseball is what I wanted to watch. That's why I wanted to actually play. So what position did you play when you were a kid? [00:04:52] Speaker B: Well, I played up up to eighth grade. I was always a pitcher and a shortstop. But then I went to. Played in. In high school, and like my other brothers, we all played in the outfield. The Wells boys. I don't know why. We sometimes somehow we had some speed, so. So I was an outfielder in high school. [00:05:11] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's the general gist of most kids who play in base play. In high school, they were all shortstops and pitchers because you had to be good enough to make the high school team that, you know, they all. They all start. And then, like, when they get to high school, then the coach is like, okay, now we got to move people around. And I have more than just a bunch of shortstops and pitchers, so. And so then, though, like, you. You. So you love baseball. You played baseball, but did you play in college or just high school? [00:05:40] Speaker B: Yeah. So, Eric, with me, I. I was kind of. This is what an. What an idiot is on your Crisis Point podcast right now. And really, this is idiotic. But. But it's true. So when I realized I wasn't. I didn't. I lacked the athleticism to play Division 1 college baseball. I decided to go to Loyola. It's now Loyola University. It was Loyola College in Baltimore. So why did I go to Loyola? Did I go because I wanted to be a businessman? Because Loyola is a business school? No, I went to Loyola because I could essentially walk to a Baltimore Orioles baseball game. What a dummy. So I knew. I knew I wanted to be a journalist. Like, I. Like I was the. I was the sports editor for the high school newspaper because I always love sports and I like to write. So I married the two. So. But I went to. I went to a business college as a journalist, learned nothing for four years. But. But I went to a lot of Baltimore baseball games and Eric, and get this, my first year that I went to Loyola. So the reason I went to college was because it was down the street from Memorial Stadium, the old Orioles. The first year I went, they started the season, oh, and 21. [00:06:53] Speaker A: So 88, right? [00:06:54] Speaker B: 88, yeah, that serves me right. Serves me right. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:06:59] Speaker A: And then, of course, they moved to Camden Yards, which is still can. I mean, that Is the, the model, the standard of modern ballparks? I mean every, I love Great American ballpark, the Reds ballpark, but it's basically based off, and I tell my kids that like listen, we can all, we can like our, have our favorite stadiums, but we have to at least acknowledge Camden Yards is the, of the model for modern ballparks. It just, when it came out, 92 was it? I think something like that. [00:07:24] Speaker B: Yeah. If I can stick my nose in there again. I, I, I was very fortunate. When I graduated college I moved to downtown Baltimore with four friends and we lived directly across the street from Camden Yards. So we were there during the construction. So, so, so I was there. So obviously on opening day I could limp to the stadium and be there in 45 seconds. I was essentially at every game, I'd find a way, even though every game the first year was sold out because the whole country fell in love with this masterpiece, this architectural masterpiece. So it was by HOK Architects. So Jacobs Field in Cleveland, Cincinnati, they sort of the same architect kind of went around. What they did was they masqueraded the old steel, wrought iron and brick from olden days into modern times. So they really did an excellent job. So yeah, so I've been to many hundreds of games at, at Camden Yards. [00:08:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I lived outside of Baltimore for a number of years, just a few years in the 90s actually. I was on a train coming back from a business trip going by Camden Yards literally when Cal Rifting was breaking the record, the game, whatever it was, you know, that broke the record. And I could see like out the window like all the stuff going on and I was like listening to, on the radio like you know, in, on the train. So yeah, great history there. Now when did you get into, so did you go straight into sports reporting then after college? [00:08:53] Speaker B: Oh yeah, I was, I was fortunate. Somehow I ended up, yeah, my day after graduating Loyola, I started at a small weekly newspaper and, and what happened was, very briefly is, you know, my, my goal was like every other young sports writer, I wanted to be a major, I wanted to write for a major daily newspaper and cover a major sport. And the Baltimore sun and the Washington Post, they both told me editors said we're not going to hire you until you get some deadline experience. You don't have deadline experience. And they were right. Like I had never written on deadline. I had never been told to write an 18 inch story at 11 o'clock at night with the deadline at 11:20 and running down to the clubhouse getting quotes and running back up and so, so I. So I took off for Florida in 1993. I. I broke up with my girlfriend. I. And again, I was. I had a pretty good life. I was living across the street from Camden Yards, living with four guys. Might get this. Eric. Not that I ever engaged in this, but if I took a corkscrew and put it into my living room and pulled it out at that time I would have been looking into a bar. So my home was connected to a bar. So for a young. For a young man at that time in Baltimore, I had it pretty good. But I wanted to be a major daily writer. So I. I took off for Florida. A little paper offered me a job, the Winter Haven News chief. It was a daily newspaper. And, and, and that's how I got my start with daily newspapers. I. I want to tell the story. I don't want to take up crisis points. Time. But I do want to tell one story about when I was this close to giving up on journalism. How my only hero, the only hero I've ever had saved my writing career. I wouldn't have written any Catholic books, no crisis articles, no nothing. No, it wouldn't have been a baseball writer if not for a man named Eddie Murray. Will you permit me to tell the Eddie Murray story? [00:10:58] Speaker A: Please do. And first of all, for those who probably people watching this are baseball fans, we know who he is, but he's one of the greats. I mean, he's one. A Hall of Famer and just, you know, one of the great players in baseball history. So. So this is why you're at this Winter Haven or whatever it is paper. [00:11:13] Speaker B: No, no, no. What happened. What happened was this. So there was a recession back then, so there wasn't any hiring of writers. There just. There wasn't but. But one paper. I took this road trip and interviewed at seven or eight newspapers. The only paper that hired me or wanted to hire me was this little. Really was an awful newspaper, God bless them, but an awful newspaper. Nobody read it. There was three mistakes on every page. It was just awful. And I knew. I knew within about a week or two, you just made the worst mistake of your life. Because not only is this paper unreadable, but you can't get hired out of here because you can't get a job with the Miami Herald or the Orlando Sentinel or the St. Petersburg Times or Tampa Tribune because everybody knows the reputation of the Winter Haven News chief. So I'm like, oh, my God, I'm stuck. I. I can't and I can't get back to The Baltimore sun or Washington Post? Because they're gonna know like, it's. You worked at the Winter Haven News chief. Why do you. Why'd you leave Baltimore for that paper? So here's what happened, Eric. And this is why God is so stinking good. This is ridiculous. What happened? So your baseball fans will know. And, Eric, you might know as well. Eddie Murray, as you mentioned, was one of the greatest switch hitters in baseball at the time. I think he was the best clutch hitter of the 1980s, the 90s. He always found a way to get a base hit in late innings to win games. One of the only switch hitters to hit 500 home runs and 3,000, 3,000 hits. Just a. Just. Just one of the best players of all time. Anyway, in the 80s, in Baltimore, a couple reporters did him wrong. Let's just say they wrote unfair stories. And. And all of a sudden, he began to be attacked in the media. Eddie Murray, who all of Baltimore loved, like Johnny Unitis and Brooks Robinson and. And. And the media kept coming after him because Murray was quiet. Murray was a quiet guy. And. And Murray one day said, okay, I'm done with all of you. I will never talk to a member of the media again. Newspaper, radio, tv, done. And, man, did he hold to that for the next 10 years, he held to it. So he. He ended up being traded to the Angels, and the Angels traded him to the. The Mets. I'm sorry, the Dodgers, and then to the Mets. And I'm in Winter Haven in 1994, and a wire story comes across in December, and it says the Cleveland Indians have just signed free agent veteran Eddie Murray to. To come to their. To help calm the clubhouse of these hotheads, mean guys. Albert Bell, Manny Ramirez, Kenny Lofton. So they brought Murray in to calm. To. For a clubhouse presence. So I'm like, oh, my goodness, my. My heroes coming to my hometown. So the Cleveland Indians, their spring training site was in Winter Haven, where I lived. So the only. The only thing that caused me to stick in Winter Haven was the fact that I got to spend 45 days going to see Major League Baseball for. And then after that, essentially, Eric, I was going to give up and go home. So at this point, I was in Winter Haven for about six months. And so I read Murray's coming to town. So Murray comes to town on February 14, 1994. And I said this. I'm gonna get Murray to talk. [00:14:37] Speaker A: Murray, you're like, you know, working for this crappy newspaper. You have no experience whatsoever. You're basically out of college. And you're gonna try to break the 10 year silence. [00:14:48] Speaker B: This little clown said, I'm going to get Murray to talk. And if I get Murray to talk, and Eric, you understand this as a writer, as a journalist, if I get Murray to talk and I write a story, somebody out there is going to realize, how did this little guy Wells, so, so first day of spring training, Murray's walking back to the clubhouse, and he's walking back with Kenny Lofton. And, and your baseball fans will know, the first couple weeks of spring training, it's just half days and they're not playing games yet. So it's like 1:00. Everyone's going back to get changed so they can play golf. Everyone plays golf. All baseball players play golf. So they're walking back and, and I said, hey, Eddie, do you have a minute? And Eddie and Kenny Lofton stop. And Murray's looking at me and I said, hey, Eddie, my name is Kevin Wells. I'm with the local newspaper. I, I know your policy towards not talking to reporters, but, you know, my editor would like to lead with you for a spring training magazine. I was just hoping you talked to me. And Kevin, I appreciate, I, you know, as you know, you know my policy, I'm not talking to you. I, you know, no offense, but I, I don't talk to the media. I appreciate it. You know, Kenny Lofton, he's no help to me. He's like this. Who's this clown? So, so, so we, so they just leave me. And I'm like, well, okay, so the next day he's walking back to the clubhouse with, get this, Eric. And you'll understand this, he's walking back to the clubhouse with three of the biggest jerks in the history of baseball. Albert Bell, Manny Ramirez and Lofton again. [00:16:17] Speaker A: And I'm like, those three, I mean, really, they are hall of Fame jerks. I mean, you know, as far as, like how they act and stuff. Yeah. [00:16:25] Speaker B: George Bush would have called him the access of baseball evil. So. [00:16:28] Speaker A: Right. [00:16:28] Speaker B: So they're, they're walking back. So already Murray's trying to, you know, calm these hotheads down. And, and, and I said, and, and I thought the night before, I said, Hey, 33, that's his number. Been his number his whole career. So Eddie stops again, turns around with the access of baseball evil. And they're all looking at me now. And I walk up to Eddie and I said, eddie. And he's kind of laughing at this point. He's like, what do you do? What are you back. What are you Back again. And I said, eddie, I know more about your baseball career than any baseball writer in America. And he's looking at me, and, you know, Albert Bell's rolling his eyes, and Ramirez is like, get this clown. So. So. But Murray's kind of engaged now. He didn't know. He didn't know that I was 12, 13 years old. I used to draw him in my little notebooks in fifth grade. He didn't know that he was my hero. And then at the matha, I actually mimicked his batting stance. He didn't know any of that. I just said, I know more about your career than it. And I. And you know what? Fact is, I. I may have, because I followed him religiously. So. So we get into a conversation, and. And. And here's. Here's what I said. He's like, how do you think you know me so well? I said, eddie, I grew up in Maryland, and I followed your career, and I. And I know how you play the game. So he began to ask me questions, just random questions about his career. You know, where he went to high school. And I said, well, you played with Ozzie Smith and Eric Davis out in Watts, California. So I'm getting there. And I said. He said, okay. So somehow I said, eddie, I know. I know the game where you had nine RBIs. I know where it was. Yeah, you know, everyone knows that. I said, eddie, I know the four pitchers you had the nine RBIs off of. Really? Who? I named the four California Angels pitchers. So now he's laughing, and he's having a good time, and finally he's like, kevin, but I'm not talking to you like we're having a good time. I said, eddie, listen, even if I write something terrible about you, no one's going to read it anyway because no one newspaper. And he's cracking off, and. And. And Lofton's actually laughing at this point. So. So I said, eddie, listen, I live in Winter Haven, Florida. I got nothing to do. You got nothing to do either. You got nothing to lose. Just give me a try. I got nothing else going on. So he's like, finally. We're. Finally. He said, all right, Kevin, meet my locker in 10 minutes. So I go. I go back to. Into the Cleveland Indians, and I'm sitting in front of his locker, and we talked for an hour. And, I mean, it was one of those interviews. Like, I'm talking to my childhood hero. And. And here's. Here's the one thing I remember about it. So for you, for your baseball fans, you'll know a baseball stadium or a spring training site. You have these little work setters where the media go after their interviews to write their stories, the file their stories. So. So I walk into this room, and you got the beat writer for the Cleveland Times Dispatch, the. The Cleveland Plains Dealer, guy named Paul Hoynes, Terry Pluto. And I walk in, this little punk, this little nobody, works for News Chief. And I walk in, and this guy Paul Hoynes turns around, he looks at me and goes, how the. Did you get Murray to talk to you? I said, I don't know. [00:19:46] Speaker A: So. [00:19:47] Speaker B: So I wrote. So I wrote the story. I wrote this story and the story. It was a magazine story. I mean, this thing was a blowout. Two weeks later, I get a phone call from the executive sports editor from the Tampa Tribune, who happened to be a big baseball fan. His name was Paul Smith. And he said, how did you get Eddie Murray to talk to you? He said, if you got Murray to talk to you, there's something about you that maybe could help us. So he brought me down to Tampa and I interviewed, and that's how I got my job with the Tampa Tribune. And wouldn't you know it, within a year, Major League Baseball makes an announcement. In three years, we're going to bring Arizona and Tampa bay into. In 1998 into. Into major League Baseball. I called him that day, Mr. Smith the sportster. I called him that day, and I said, I want to be your first ever Major League Baseball writer. He said, get in line, brother. So. So that's when I began to work, to become the first beat writer. And I worked and I worked and I worked. And when the interviews were had about a year later, I ended up getting that job. So I was the first Major League Baseball Raider for the Tampa Bay Rays for the Tampa Tribune. And I credit Eddie Murray for saying, sit down. For my. For my career and the fact that I'm writing Catholic books all these years later, because. Because if that didn't happen with Murray, I'd be working for the masonry contracting business for the family right now. That's where it is. [00:21:18] Speaker A: Amazing how God worked in this, because he takes this situation where Eddie Murray, you know, gets wronged. He decides, I'm not going to talk. And I think even I wouldn't be surprised if having, like, Bell and Ramirez and Lofton there was part of, like, maybe even his subconscious, Murray's subconscious calculations. Like, I need to, like, be a good example to them. I'm trying to teach them how to be Major League Baseball players. And Then of course, your knowledge of Murray being connected, being there. And now we got, you know, we had these great Catholic books from you and that I think have really helped a lot of people. I mean your, your promotion of, you know, just your latest book about the priests, you know, the hermit and your wife's story. And then of course, I'm blanking on the name Father, Father Al Schwartz, priest and beggar. I mean, I'm embarrassed blanking on because I love that book so much, you know, letting people know about him. We can thank Eddie Murray for, for that. I mean that, that is amazing. I don't think a lot of Catholic writers have that type of story in their background. So. So then, so you became the first beat writer for mlb. Now during all this time, I mean the. I titled the podcast based on Catholicism. Had you been a practicing Catholic like the whole time, like as a kid, as you know, in college and throughout, throughout your, your writing, your, your sports writing career? [00:22:43] Speaker B: My whole life I was a practicing Catholic. Was I a good Catholic? No. Was I a faithful Catholic who never missed Mass? Yeah, I never missed Mass. Was I going to confession? Not every month. Maybe every five, six months. I was a lukewarm. A Catholic I'd call myself, but I understood because my parents taught me how to pray and all my eight siblings, or all eight of us had a pray. We prayed the rosary as a family. I always say that, that because my family prayed the rosary, it kept me in line and I continued to pray the rosary even all by myself down there in Winter Haven and elsewhere. So no, I was always a practicing Catholic. But it wasn't until I would say, and not to go too far afield, but it wasn't until I think I had a near death experience. I had a, an aneurysm, a brain, A brain, A failed brain surgery that when I came out of that, I said, you know what? Nothing's the same anymore. So that was in 2009. But yeah, I've always been a, a practicing Catholic. [00:23:43] Speaker A: So while you're in on the beat, like I think there's certain stereotype or reputation of a professional sports like locker room and how it, it. Let's just say it wouldn't necessarily be conducive to the practice of the Catholic faith in a lot of cases, at least that's the, that's the kind of thought. So what was it really like in these locker rooms? Was it a bunch of hedonism and things like that or did you have all types? And what was it like in the locker Room. [00:24:12] Speaker B: Well, the locker room. You know, there wasn't hedonism in there obviously. So just for some of your baseball nerds or anyone might be interested in this. So for a typical 7 o'clock game, the Major League Baseball clubhouse will open up at 3:30. So I'd be there at 3:30 as soon as the clubhouse open. And that's kind of where you get your stories. That's where you hope to actually beat your competition on stories. You kind of work your way around the clubhouse to get stories, news, etc. Etc. Or if you want to write a feature story, players are more apt to talk to you before the game than after because they want to get out of there after games. So, so anyway, so that's a lot of fun. Actually. It was kind of fun just, just being in clubhouses, getting to know players, players get to know you. It's, it's, it's all, it's, it's very challenging too because, because you have to write tough stories. Hey Eric, I'll just share this with, with your, your viewers. Like the first tough story I wrote was on Wade Boggs. So Wade Boggs was our third baseman on that first Devil Race team. They used to be called the Devil Ray. So Boggs is at third base, he's like 38 years old. And, and Fred McGriff was at first base. He's like 36, 37. So they still were decent players. But anyway, so here's, here's the, here's what happens to a young baseball writer. So Boggs had a great spring hit like 370in spring. And, and things were working out really well. He's in shape. And, and the second game in the regular season, he, he got injured. I think it was, it might have just been a, a hamstring pole or something. So, so they put him on the 15 day DL during the game. So after the game, that was the story. So we're at his locker and I said, you know, Wade, I had to ask it. No one else was. I said, Wade, is there any element to your age being part of this injury? There's an expression when you ask a question like this and a player, let's just say, doesn't respond very well. There's an expression that I can't repeat on this podcast about, it's a, it's about the worst expression that you can be, I could say on a podcast, right? But dogs decide to do this to me for about three minutes in front of about three or four other reporters. But I'll say This about Bogs, I mean, it was a diatribe, full throated diatribe. One of those where every player in the clubhouse stops getting dressed and they look, what the heck's going on, Bogs? So the next day I come in the clubhouse at 3:30 and you're taught as a writer, when you write something poorly of somebody or there's a fight, go up to that writer, go up to that player first. But Boggs called me over and he said, hey Wells. So I went to his locker and he put his hand out and he said, I apologize for what I did yesterday. That was unprofessional of me. You asked the right question. I'm just hot because I got injured, I'm on the DL, but I shouldn't have reacted the way I did. So that's, that's kind of an inside look of at clubhouse life. Now as far as your, your question about the debauchery, what I learned pretty quickly is something I would have never known. Now, now, God bless. Not all baseball players are like this. We can't generalize. But I can say it's pretty prevalent where players on the road, on road trips, I always thought that maybe they would go to a nightclub or a bar and meet somebody and, and do what they have to do. Married, unmarried, it is what it is. But it's, it was so bad that a lot of these players, veteran players, they had their paramours waiting in the cities. So that's when I realized, wow. Now obviously I knew, I knew I was friends with some players that were straight arrows, married, love their children and they were great. But yeah, when you're on the road as a writer or a player, the Deuces are wild. You do whatever you want. And so what, what would happen with the writers is. So the game ends at 10:30. You have three deadlines. The bulldog edition, the second edition, third edition. You finally break out of the stadium around midnight and you're all wound up from deadline writing. So you need to, you don't need to unwind, but we needed to unwind at the, at the local bar. So, so the players, the writers would all get together afterwards and we'd have a few beers just to sort of settle us down and just kind of talk whatever guys talk about. And sometimes players would be at these bars and, and you'd hang out with them. But, but for a single man, it's the greatest lifestyle in the world. For a married man, it doesn't work very well. So, so I ended up getting married and I Realized if I was going to do this much longer, it just wasn't going to work. So. But as, as I did it as a single man, man, did I enjoy my life. [00:28:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I can imagine now. Now, did, Were there examples of like, did you run examples of really like faithful Catholics who, who really were kind of open about their faith and, and let people know about. Because I mean you hear a lot of times about like, at least I remember, I remember more like the pro evangelical Protestant types, they would be much, very open about. Of course a lot of the players make sign of cross for the at bat, but that doesn't necessarily mean much about how they live. But like, did you, did you encounter like Catholics who were, who were faithful in the professional league? [00:29:32] Speaker B: Well, I was very close to, to obviously the players on Tampa Bay just because I was with them every day for nine months. But what I saw on that team was, as you mentioned, Eric, it was more of the Protestants. There was a couple players in that team, a center fielder named Quentin McCracken, who's actually a good player, spoke a lot about God. The player that I became close with, a Catholic who, who was unafraid to talk about his faith, he was the catcher. He was actually an all star for a couple years. His name was John Flaherty. I think he's the, I think he does some play by play for the Yankees. Now John Flaherty. There was a guy named Mike Kelly who was very open with his faith and actually a guy you'll know, Eric. Dave Martinez, the manager for the Nationals, he was, he was also open about his Catholic faith. So, so yeah, you know, they, when I say open, they wouldn't open up unless I asked. A couple guys would bring God into the conversation. Just like, you know, I thank God that I was able to go three for four today or whatever, but, but it wasn't too, anything too outside the bounds of this guy's wearing it on his sleeve. [00:30:38] Speaker A: Right. And speaking actually of like Protestant Christians and the race, just about a couple years ago it was a big story when a few of the race players refused to wear the pride emblem on their, on their, on their hats or jersey. They came out where it was and I was, I really admired them for that because I mean the amount of pressure I'm sure they got from the league, from the teammates, from everybody to wear that and they just refused. And I believe, I don't think any of them were Catholic, but they were all Christian. And they all just said, nope, we're not going to do that. [00:31:08] Speaker B: Yeah, That's a, that, that was, that was a form of modern day martyrdom. That was exceptional what they did. Because I do know just because I was there in clubhouses, not just baseball, but football and basketball, NBA. There's an enormous amount of pressure put on these players and, and, and oftentimes they cave. So these big Goliaths, these big strong Goliaths, they cave because of pressure. And the fact that it was a pitcher, it was actually a pitcher for the Rays. I forget his last, it started with the mc, I forget his name. But yeah, and a couple hockey players did it. Yeah, that, that was an enormous witness to God and standing true in their belief. So yeah, I, and I don't know if you saw yesterday, but Anheuser Busch is now said they will no longer participate in any kind of pride. Now maybe it's the new administration with dei. I mean shame on that Anheuser Busch for doing it, but at least they're like looking at themselves and saying what are we doing? Like what do we do? So hopefully that's Anheuser Busch starts a trend here. [00:32:06] Speaker A: It will be interesting in this June to see how much the pride stuff is promoted because baseball being the, the main sport that's going on in June, I mean really, football is not going on. NBA is kind of finishing up, being HL is finished up. And it's always been the place where all, you know, every team except for the Rangers has a pride night. And I, I do. Baltimore is one of the worst, to be honest about promoting that thing. I remember we were watching because I think the Reds played them one year and we were watching the game and also I saw they had a big rainbow painted into the outfield and I was just like, okay, we're turning this off. The Reds are kind of funny because the Reds have a pride night, but they don't really promote it hardly at all, but they have it. So it's like each thing's a little bit more different. [00:32:48] Speaker B: That's such a Cincinnati way of doing things. Now, Eric, Eric, I will say this and no defense for the, the awful wokeism of the Baltimore Orioles. I will say that last year they were the only team in Major League Baseball that had faith night. So people could bring banners, Catholic banners, banners of our lady version of the poor. You know, it didn't matter rosaries. So they really, they, they boomerang back. And I'll say, and I'll tell you why they did because there were so many complaints from folks like me and fans saying how dare you. So they they made up for it. But you, Eric, you made an excellent point. I thought this the other day too, when I read, read about Anheuser Busch. How will baseball respond? Will they cave again or will be there be some momentum? That groundswell From Trump and J.D. vance and some of this wreckage of woke as a medi. How will they respond? [00:33:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm hoping it really. I mean, because I think it was like two years ago with the Dodgers event that really, I think it did make it because last year was not as bad. I mean, I'm not defending it was terrible by an objective standard, but two years ago is when they had the Dodgers and that huge event with Bishop Strickland where, where it really was like, I think the Dodgers themselves realized, the Dodgers executives realized, oh, we went too far. This is not good for money, for our brand, for our business. And so I, and I feel like last year it was definitely toned down after that and so I won. That's why I wonder, is it going to continue? I'm hoping it continues on that path. I know that our local, like I just saw in Cincinnati, the Pride event, the, the, the, the organization was talking about getting new sponsors because I think they're losing sponsors, a lot of their corporate sponsors, because that's the one thing. I know we're getting a little bit off topic here, but the, the pride stuff is 100 corporate. I mean, that's the thing. If you've ever. I've, I've gone to the Pride Parade here a couple times to pray just so everybody knows why I'm there, you know, to pray and witness and things like that. And, and it's just the most corporate event on earth. I mean, it's nothing like a march for life or anything like that. And so, and that's essentially what these baseball teams are, is they're corporations. And so, you know, will they, will they bow to it or not? Now, of course, back in your day when you're reporting, they didn't, you know, that wasn't, that wasn't really a thing at all. So. But I did want to talk, though, about like, the professional baseball and the role models. I know a lot of cat. Like, somebody just commented today on my article, I have an article today on Crisis on Crisis magazine about baseball. And the first comment was somebody who loves baseball, thinks it's the greatest sport on earth. But he's like, I stopped watching professional baseball in 2020. I think it was because just the woke. The wokeism. And he's like, I'm not going back. I Need some type of apology or something. And, and what do you say to that? I mean, like, I think it's a legitimate point of view in my opinion. I mean, obviously I still, you know, follow professional baseball. I still, I still watch with the kids like that. But what do you think about like the whole influence of professional baseball, not just wokeism, but just being a role model and how it's, you know, it's such a big deal now and you know, kind of beyond like sports idols and things like that. [00:35:54] Speaker B: Well, it's kind of two questions you asked there. The first is the, the fellow who responded. The first to respond. I, I really am compassionate to, to his, to his response of not going back. I, but I, I analogize. Analogize it with. So there was an owner for many, many, many years for the Orioles named Peter Angelos. Just a terrible owner, just a bad, just a bad owner. Not a good. Per. Many people would say, not a good person. I don't judge the man. So he, he finally relinquished his ownership last year and, and now there's a new owner. So I know people that have said I will never go to another Orioles game because of Peter Angelos. And, and I always say whether it's to them or whether the gentleman who responded today, who cares? I mean, once you sit down in the stadium next to your son or whomever it might be, your wife, some friends, like you said, the marketing goes out the door. No one cares about it. No one's talking about the rainbow here. I understand that it's upsetting. Peter Angelos, the owner's upsetting. The wokeism is upsetting. But baseball, as you wrote Eric, beautifully today, it's timeless. It's eternal. You called it. It's a very Catholic sport. And I understand why you did. And I follow the, the threat of your reasoning there because once you sit down next to somebody like, like let's just say, let's just say a father who played catch with. In the side yard with his son as a 5 year old all the way up until 16 every other day and now the son has kind of lost the plot. He's no longer going to mass. He's, he's against the church because of whatever else. And the son is 24 years old and dad says, hey son. Hey, you know what? I got tickets to the Orioles, you know, how about you joining me? Oh, dad. Yeah. So you sit next to your son and you relate. And the greatest thing about baseball is every 15 seconds you get to have this conversation, whatever it is, and then you watch the pitch, you see what happens and you go right back to the conversation. Baseball is the only sport that I know of where you really can do it par excellence. And you can do it for nine innings. And you're not scrolling, as you mentioned Eric in your article, you're not scrolling on your cell phone. And if you're a real big baseball fan, that dad and that son, they get to strategize about where the outfielders positioned, you know, are they cheating up the middle? The second baseman and shortstop, it's a three, two count. Is he going to bury a fastball with. So it's, it's just a great way to connect with whomever. So wokeism, 2020, all that stuff, I get it, I get it. But don't give up on the glorious sport of baseball. As Eric, as Eric would attest. It seems to be sort of a divinely orchestrated game. The dimensions, it's a game of margins, it's a game of inches. It's just, it's perfectly made. So it's. When you're in that stadium, all that stuff just goes away. At least it does for me. [00:38:50] Speaker A: Yeah. And I, I the same experience. You know, I have a one son and he's huge baseball fan. He played ball you the way through high school and just. And my daughters, they, they love baseball as well. But there's just something about like when you go to the ballpark and it's just very different from the other sports because I've been to, you know, basketball games, football games and things like that and those you're very much into the sport in of like paying attention because there's so much going on. Like my son, I've been to some NBA games and like, you know, we're very focused on the action, stuff like that. And the great thing about baseball is the leisurely pace of it. Like I compared it honestly to like you know, just resting in heaven that you had this leisurely pace and you just chat, you're there. And like it's especially true of guys because guys, we talk to each other not looking at each other, we talk to each other sitting side by side looking at something else. That's, that's a very common way that we relate to each other. And so that's why you have this bond between fathers and sons, particularly with baseball, because you're both watching the game. That's the structure of kind of what's going on. And you will comment on the game. I mean my son and I, we get super nerded up. I mean we like, actually seats a lot of times higher up, so we can kind of keep track of where the outfielders are playing and, you know, what are they, you know, everything going on. And. But yeah, you can have a whole conversation about anything about nothing. And. And it's just. It's a real bonding experience. And like, I get the, like you. I get the, you know, giving money to. To some owners, like an Angelos. I mean, that guy was awful. And, And. And some. And just if they do woke stuff, like, I get, like boycotting the Dodgers when they did what they did a couple years ago now just because they're the evil empire. But, like, I get all that. But ultimately, I just know in my personal experience, I have a better relationship with my son and my daughters because of baseball. And I just. Objectively, a true statement that I know and I always will have. And like you said, now I'm very fortunate none of my kids have fallen away or anything like that. But, like, I always will have that bond of baseball that I can at least have that relationship, talk to them about it if something goes wrong or whatever. And it just is a really. I know other sports, you can have that some, but I. I really do think baseball is different, and it's just a little deeper of a bonding experience you have with your kids watching baseball than any other sport. [00:41:15] Speaker B: I was talking to a woman just this morning, Eric, who. Who said this, and it was. It was beautiful. Was sad, but it was beautiful. She was born and raised in Milwaukee, and she was one of, I think, four children. And for some reason, she never bonded with her dad like dad bonded with the other kids, but she just could do no right in her dad's eyes and always getting in trouble. It's just. It was just not good. She was lonely and. But she was the only kid who liked baseball, so dad loved baseball. So the only time she said this, it's sad to say, but the only time she. That she felt loved was going to a Brewers game and. And sitting next to her dad and just talking baseball with him. And she felt like dad loved her then and. And. And still all these years later, he's still alive. All these years later, they still go to baseball games, and she's still the. The relationship's somewhat repaired, but it's at a baseball game where it comes alive and. And that love is truly shared. So, yeah, there is that. There is that little magical elixir that. That baseball provides. [00:42:24] Speaker A: And the reality is, you know, our culture kind of warps and abuses everything. Everything is good. Everything that's good. And so professional baseball. But I want to segue for a minute here to youth sports, youth baseball, because that's something I mentioned in the, in the article and there is a, I know there's also Catholics who are very concerned and skeptical youth sports. And I'm one of them. I had both good with my own kids. I had both good and bad experiences with good with youth sports. Never, never terrible ones. But like, you know, some that were great, some that weren't so good. But like to me I just feel like the baseball was such a good life lessons for my son played it mostly. I had one daughter who played a lot of softball and a couple of daughters who played a little bit. But I mean I can still remember, I still remember the day my son was probably about maybe 11, Little League and they were playing an important game. At least it was important to him. I know. And, and it was one of these situations. Bottom of the seventh, that's you play seven innings, you know, in Little League and he was up with the bases loaded, two outs and he gets a hit and they're going to win. And he, I think he either grounded out or he struck out or something like that. And he was just devastated. I mean this was, you know, 11 year old boy, this is his, this is his world. This is the most important thing. And I knew that. And I remember just sitting in the going, you know, I didn't say anything to him. We got in the car together, drive home and I remember, I don't know exactly what I said, but I remember very distinctly he was very upset and I just kind of told him something to the effect of like, don't forget this. Like this is like this is something. Don't, don't like I can't remember something. The fact of like don't run away from this. Don't forget it. You're upset, you're disappointed because you didn't, you failed what you wanted to do. You let, you feel like you let your teammates down, all that stuff. But like just know that this is like life, this is an important, you know, this is. Yeah, I try to say it in an 11 year old way. He might tell the story a lot differently and maybe make fun of me or something like that today. But, but I just remember how, how that I remember thinking at the moment this is a very good life lesson for him. You know, of course as a dad I wanted him, I want him hit a grand slam and I was. Even when he, when he did ground out or struggle, whatever I Was even my first reaction was, oh, I was disappointed, you know, myself. I was like, because I wanted to see. But as a dad, I was like, no, this might actually be much better for him, what happened here, because he was, he was the best player on the team. So it's not like, you know, if he's the right fielder who's batting ninth and that happens, it's expected, but he's the shortstop who's batting third or whatever. And so it's like everybody was thinking, oh, we have our guy up, he's going to come through. And he didn't. [00:45:09] Speaker B: Yeah, well, that's. Baseball's like life. It's like the Catholic. It's like the Catholic faith is. So we, if we're doing it right, we do an examine at night and, and we, we go over what we did well, we did poorly, etc. And you know, maybe your son that night was like, okay, well, you know, I feel miserable. I feel awful. I let the team down. But what did I, what did I not do correctly there? And, and he might analyze himself and say, you know what? I could have, I could have waited on the pitch or whatever. But yeah, baseball, you know, baseball's like anything else. In baseball, there's so many opportunities to fail. As you wrote about this morning, Eric, you're a failure. You're a failure if, if you go 2 for 10, absolute failure. But if you go 3 for 10, you're a Hall of Famer. So it's, it's, it's remarkable. You fail seven times out of 10, and you're a Hall of Famer. So, so, yeah, you're always learning. And you know what, Eric? I'll say this. What I learned from the greats, and I covered some of the best baseball players who ever played. I covered Ken Griffey Jr. I covered Jeter, I covered Greg Maddox, I covered some of the greats. When they failed, it was like they succeeded. You didn't know the difference. I mean, obviously you knew interiorly they're burning up. But hey, I, I'll get, I'll get it next to outing when I start or I'll get it the next step, bat. So, so after time, players learn the emotions, the anger. Don't, don't let it get the best of you. Just think about, okay, what I'm going to do next at bat. So, yeah, yeah, baseball is a learning experience. It, it's just like life. We learn from our failures. [00:46:40] Speaker A: And it's such a great lesson for the spiritual life because I remember reading St. Teresa of Avila I think it was in way of perfection how she talked about how perseverance is like the most important virtue for the spiritual life because you are going to fall, you're going to fall and so you have to get back up. And so like my son, after he got out that time, the next game, he had to get up there. And he had his successes too, obviously, you know, but it's like he had to get back up there and just be like, okay, I can't dwell on that. And, and that's a hard thing for a lot of us when we fail spiritually, when we fall, which we all do, you just got to get back up. And I think so. I think that, and I think honestly today it's particularly noticeable because, I mean I do think there's a, there's such, so many, like the helicopter parents, the parents who want everything to go right for their kids and go perfectly for them. And you see this with the parents when they're yelling at the coach or the umpires or something like that, which is just awful. Which was why I understand some people not liking youth sports today. But if it's done right, it really can make a difference. And so like did, did your, you, you have a son, you said, did he play ball as well? [00:47:49] Speaker B: Oh yeah, he played baseball in high school. He played basketball. He was an athlete too. But it's the same, it's the same with you, Eric. You, you, you take, you take these opportunities of failure. Like I, I sometimes, like if Sean failed and we had an hour drive back to the house, he felt my love for a more on that ride when I didn't say a word. [00:48:15] Speaker A: Right. [00:48:15] Speaker B: Because he understood that dad gets it. You know, dad was there and he knows, he knows what you're feeling. And when you get home and nothing's been talked about and you have dinner, then afterwards, when the emotion, his emotions are, then we say, hey, man, it's a tough one, huh? And yeah, dad, it stinks. And, and yeah, so it, you know, I was thinking you were talking about Teresa of Avila and, and persistence. I, I, you know, I was thinking the other day, I don't know why, I've probably written over 3, 000 sports articles in my life. Something like that. 3, 4000 and a bunch of different faith related articles and books. If I could crunch all of those words into like a single theme or even a single word, it would be fortitude. What do I mean by that? It'd be so whether it's the saints or Christ or whomever, Father Al Schwartz or the hermit or. And I covered Shaq, I covered Kobe, I've covered Cal Ripken, all of these guys, all of them. Christ, all Christ on down. They all suffered, they endured lonely nights, they sacrificed, they accepted pain. Kobe, Kobe, Kobe would come out of a game, have ice packs on his knees and say, coach, take them off. Put me in. We gotta win. But Kobe, your knees are bad. I don't care. We got to win the game. So. So at the end of the day, if we're going to be Catholics that Christ calls us to be, to live according to his will, we're just going to have to understand there's going to be suffering, we're going to fail. But it's like Lent. Like we, we lose our lent and promises, we fall off the track. We have that candy bar, whatever it is. Well, Christ doesn't care about that. We get back on track. You know, that's what the greatest athletes did, is they found a way to say, hey, I messed this one up, but I'm going to keep driving forward. [00:50:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I just. You mentioned Kobe, so I have to bring this up. I'm con. I'm only half joking when I say that I'm convinced that the world went to hell after he died, because he died in January of 2020. And it's just like after that a lot of things went wrong and I'm just like, I'm. I told my son that and he kind of laughs. I'm just like, I think like, like even Kobe died. That was so tragic. And it just was. Yeah, but that's basketball. But yeah, so I think also like, what were your. I just want to ask you. What. Who are your favorite players? I mean, Eddie Murray, obviously, I'm sure Cal Rukin Jr. Was on. But who are your favorite players? Just overall, just not just for their, their talent on the ball field, but like their personality and then don't have to be Catholic or that, but just like their personality and their example. [00:50:44] Speaker B: Derek Jeter and I want to tell a quick story. [00:50:46] Speaker A: Why you're speaking as an Orioles fan. So that means something. You have no love loss for Yankees. [00:50:52] Speaker B: It means a lot. And I mean, so Eric understands this. You hate the Yankees if you're an Orioles fan, but Derek Jeter without question. I'm going to tell a quick story. Why it was the last game of the 1998 baseball season and the Yankees had the best record in the history of baseball. They had tied the Detroit tigers from like 1914. I think they had 114 wins that year. They went on to win the World Series. They blew away San Diego. Four games, nothing. They were the best team that I had ever seen, ever covered. So they're finishing their season in Tampa Bay. They have four games. They swept us. So it's the last game. And my editor says, hey, Kevin, I want you to write a feature story on. On Jeter to highlight our playoff coverage. And I'm like, jeter's not going to talk to me. Let's get back to New York and take a few days off. He said, just try. So, so went to the clubhouse, 3:30, and Jeter's not. So I'm talking Apollo, Neil, Daryl Strawberry, Tina Martinez getting quotes on. On Jeter. And at this time, Jeter was dating Mariah Carey. He was on this month. He was on the COVID of GQ. He was the first captain. He was only 23 years old or 24. First captain since Thurman Munson in the 70s. So Joe Tory named him captain when his whole clubhouse is filled with veterans. So. So I'm like, what in the world? What's going. So here's what happens. So Jeter finally comes in, he's got a suit on. And I went up to him and I said, hey, Derek, you have a minute? My name's Kevin Wells. I'm with the Tampa Tribune. My editor asked me to write a piece on you, if you wouldn't mind. Give me 15, 20 minutes. And he's like, sure, sit down. Now, you will never. Baseball writer will never, ever, ever hear a baseball player say, sit down. On the back of every press packs is written, if you ask for an autograph, your autograph, your press pass will be revoked. And if you sit in the clubhouse furniture, your press pass will be revoked. So no reporter sits and you know, in clubhouse. [00:52:49] Speaker A: Now, I didn't know that. So you have to stand while you're talking to them. [00:52:52] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. You don't. You don't sit. Yeah. And, you know, they have leather couches nowadays and all that. So. So Jeter tells me to sit down at the locker next to him. I say, you, are you sure? He's like, yeah, yeah, sit down. So we talked for 20 minutes. And I could go on and on about this conversation. I mean, I'd like to, but that's a different podcast on maybe espn, But I fell in love with him during that podcast. He was saying things like, until I go 600 for 600 from the plate, I'll never be satisfied. Until I go errorless, I'll never be satisfied. So two things Happen to tell you why Derek Jeter is what is now my number two. So I'm sitting down and a looming presence comes up from behind me. And he's looking over me at Jeter and I can't see who it is. And, and I hear, yo, G, G, what's up, G? What's up? Because I'm sitting in this player's chair and Jeter looks up, he's getting dressed, he looks up, he says, yo, Rock, it's okay. Yo, Rock, it's okay. And, and Rock who you will remember who it is, says, oh, gee, okay, it's all good. It's all good. So Derek Cheater, 24, I think might have been 23, looks up at a 38 year old hall of Famer, future hall of Famer Tim Rains, and says, hey, Tim, it's okay. I'm talking to this guy. And Rain says, okay, Derek, you run this clubhouse. So that's like so. But here's what's better than that. So I'm done. The interview, I'm like, I got a magazine story, man. I got a good story on Jeter. And he talks about that. At this point, he's. There's television commercials with Jeter and George Steinbrenner for American Express. He talks about Mariah Carey, he talks about all that stuff. So on the way up to the clubhouse, I went by Joe Tory. Joe Tory is the manager for the Yankees. And I said, Joe, if you got a minute, just a couple questions. Why did you name Derek Jeter captain of this team? You got the best team in baseball. He's 23 years old. Why is he captain? You got this whole clubhouse that's filled with veterans. Bernie Williams, Andy Pettit, Daryl Strawberry, Tina Martinez. He said, kevin, the next time there's a pitching change, I want you to see what happens. I was like, what happens? He said, well, you know, for your viewer who doesn't realize whenever there's a pitching change, when a manager comes out to the mound, usually there's some strain in the game, the pitcher is getting hit or he's walking guys, or it's not looking good for the team who's in the field. So he said, whenever I go to the mound, the first person on the top of the mound is Derek Jeter. And he comes up and he does the same thing every time. He takes his glove and he punches me in the chest and he looks me in the eye and he says, don't you worry, Mr. Tory, we're going to take care of this for you. He Said that's why Derek Jeter is my captain. [00:55:34] Speaker A: Wow. How about that? [00:55:35] Speaker B: That's when Derek Jeter became my number two behind Eddie Murray. [00:55:38] Speaker A: Yeah. And I, my, one of my son's coaches would like to always would tell the, the story to, to the, to the team about Derek Jeter, how he was asked when I'm going to butcher the story a little bit, but he was asked one time like after World Series play or something like that, how did you, how are you able to make that play with that high pressure and all that? He said, well, I've made it millions of times and, and they're like, what do you mean? You've never been to World Series for it? No, no. In my head I have made that play so many times. I have. And so when the time came to do it, it was like, I've done this so much in the World Series. I've done this even though it's my first World Series where the case may be. And it just like, that's a good life lesson of being prepared, being, you know, you know, don't, don't be like, don't let the pressure get to you. And so I, yeah, Derek Jeter, I have a hard time naming any Yankee as a, as a, one of my favorites. And so I won't. But yeah, actually though, it's interesting because Cal Ripken, actually I was not an Orioles fan at all, you know, didn't really care about the orals. But Cal Ripken, I just admired him so much. And it goes back to what I was saying for. About the perseverance is like, it was the lunch pail mentality of Cal Ripken. He just showed up and honestly, in the spiritual life, that is the thing. I mean, I was just reading not long, I don't remember where the context where I read this, but like was basically saying to be a saint, the first thing is you just want to be a saint. That's the first thing. And you just show up. If you show up at prayer every day, if you just, if you just show up at prayer every day, that gets you about 90% of the way. And that's what Cal Rickman Jr did. For those who don't know, you might. Most people know he has the record for playing the most consecutive games. It was like how many was it. [00:57:25] Speaker B: Like 4,000, 2,000, 2,632. [00:57:29] Speaker A: Pete Rose's record. Yeah. 2,000. Yeah. So over 2,000 games. This was over a 15 year period or something like that? 12, 15 years, something like that. And he just Played. And this is unheard of, like most players will. Will sit out a game or two every season. Like most players, you'll get, you know, a few that play 162, but most of them. And he did 162 every single year, never. And some of that, of course, is his physical constitution is just, you know, abnormal, superhuman. But he. Mentally. Most players in August, they just need a day off to clear the head. And managers will give them a day off because they need it. But not Cal Ripken. And so I always thought that was great. And Cal, Rick, of course, is a superstar, inner circle, hall of Famer, all that stuff. But really, it was this, just the showing up every day that you just couldn't help be like this guy, you know, you have to admire him. [00:58:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you, Eric, for bringing up Cal Ripken. So I've interviewed him. I'm lucky many times. And. And two things that I've gleaned of him, not to make it too Catholic, hokey, or too Catholic off the tracks, but. But I. I believe this. There's linear symmetry to Cal Ripken's life and the Catholic faith, and I really believe this. So let's just talk about the Catholic priest who wants to be a good priest, but he wants to skip the holy hour. He doesn't want to do a holy hour every day. Well, Cal Ripken knew that he wanted to be the best shortstop in the history of baseball. He wanted the. He wanted the Baltimore Orioles to win the World Series every year. So to do that, he knew he needed to train. Monotonously boring, just. Just horrible. But he knew he had to do it to, at the end of the day, become mvp, hall of Famer, Orioles can win a World Series. So he did it. But here's the thing. He, as you said, the sheet metal workers, the bricklayers, the short order cooks in Baltimore, they all loved Cal because Cal did the most boring thing in the world. He just showed up. So they all related to Cal. Cal broke a record by just showing up. He became an iron man by just showing up. But here's the thing about Ripken that no one talks about. And I. And I know, and I guess you might know, there was about 700 to 900 of those games that he played where it felt like a hot poker was sticking into his back. [00:59:53] Speaker A: All right? [00:59:54] Speaker B: And he knew that. He always told himself, if there's a. If there's a shortstop or a third baseman that is better than me, that can do better than I can with my limited nobility because of my Back then I'll sit down. Like, I'll sit down and I'll let the manager do what he wants. And, and the manager had an understanding. Cal told him that. So, but he, but he kept playing with this pain. But here's the main thing Cal, Cal knew during this streak. Cal hated practice, he hated doing it. But he told me this once. He said, kevin, you know, for me to stay in shape, for me to do the, the, the, the get my body stretched out after the game until one in the morning, for me to just stay in iron man shape, I had to go out every day at 3:00. And here's the key relating to the Catholic life. The priest who doesn't want to do a holy hour, Kevin Wells, who doesn't want to commit himself to maybe an hour of prayer every day. He said, I had to make things imaginative. I had to mix things up. I had to be more creative with how I went about my workouts, my sprints, my training, taking ground balls. So every day I tried to mix it up and make it a little more interesting for me. And I think in my own life, like, obviously I want to get to that point of the mystical marriage of Teresa of Avila's interior castle and have that marriage and get to that contemplation. Right? So, but, but until I get there, I got to keep mixing it up with reading scripture, falling into meditation, whatever it is. I can't just like, people will just give up on prayer. Cal could have just given up and said, you know what? I. No, but Cal found a way to keep, to keep sticking his nose into the field and saying, I got to keep going. And he was very creative. And I think that's a part of Cal that no one really talks about, is he had to be creative to make this thing last. [01:01:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And St. Teresa Avila talks about that, how she would start off by just reading some scripture, something like that, to get to the point, but it's like she's just showing up. And it really is something that like, you can relate to. And I will say, having lived in Baltimore for a few years, Cal fit. I know he's from the area, but he fit that town perfectly. I mean, that was the, the non flash. You just show up. That's Baltimore right there. I mean, they're not, you know, you guys aren't trying to be like Broadway and, you know, New York or LA or anything that it's like, we're Baltimore, we're not. That's who we are. So I, I want to bring up Somebody else. So, like, I feel like I can't have a baseball conversation, we're talking about role models without talking about who I think is the greatest baseball player ever. And, and I, I want to show my, my most prized position. [01:02:24] Speaker B: Let me get, let me guess. Hang on, let me guess. [01:02:27] Speaker A: Well, it might be a little different than you think. I'm talking about role models here. [01:02:30] Speaker B: Okay. [01:02:31] Speaker A: That's a big impact of why he's the greatest. So go ahead. You know, what were you going to say? [01:02:36] Speaker B: Okay, I thought you were going to say Pete Rose, but no, now, now I know who you're going to say. Now you're going to say. Are you going to say Lou Gehrig? [01:02:44] Speaker A: No, I'm going to say Jackie Robinson. [01:02:45] Speaker B: Ah, yes. Okay. [01:02:46] Speaker A: I got, this is my most, I don't have the rookie card. I can't afford that. But this is a 1956, tops, Jackie Robinson card, and it's one of those prized possessions. And I just consider him. When you understand the story of what Jackie Robinson went through, I know today, the dei, all that stuff, there's so much, you know, all that. But we're talking real 1940s, true, deep racism, where he, he was the only, I feel like he's the only one who could have done it. And I think, you know, they, you know, nobody else had the, had the, the fortitude, the, the, the ability to withstand the abuse and still go out there and play well. Because the truth is, if he had failed as a player when he came out, when he came up, that would have set it back probably 10 years because they'd be like, see, we told you blacks can't play this game. They can't compete with us. Which of course is ridiculous. But like, at the time, that was thought by a lot of people. But what he went through, I've read a number of books about him. I watched 42. The movie, great movie. And I just think that, like, as far as, like when you combine everything, the, the, the role model and the, and the ability, because he is an inner circle hall of Famer as well, it just, I, I, Jackie's like the top for me. [01:04:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Eric, you said something. I want to draw it back to you, believe it or not. So you mentioned fortitude and his athleticism. You know, he was a Hall of Fame player. And Branch Rickey did tell him, you're the only one who can do this. But I always think of this word, and this goes back to Eric Sammons. I always think restraint. So when he was called N bomb after N Bomb after N bomb in every city. He had restraint. Now I'm going to be hokey again and bring it back to the Catholic faith. There is vitriol in the Catholic world right now, and there should be, because things are a mess right now. It's a chocolate mess in the church. You did something last year that I thought was beautiful. I really did. You said, you know what? I'm not going to write disparagingly on a public forum about Pope Francis. I forget how you worded it, or I'm not going to speak or write about it. [01:04:55] Speaker A: I'm going to criticize him anymore. [01:04:56] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So, so you something, whether it's through prayer or, I don't know, it doesn't matter. But you, you said, I, I've got to practice some type of restraint here because we all know what's going on in the hierarchy and with bishops, in the Vatican, with Pope Francis. But you said, you know what? I'm going to pull back. And, and, and that, and what's going on that I see right now in our church is obviously, it just seems ideologically, it doesn't seem like there's even like a middle ground anymore. You're either far right, and whatever the, the left does, it's all off the tracks. And the far left says, ah, the right, they're all going to hell because they're all rad trads. And, well, there, there is this middle ground where you just, you choose to be holy. So Jackie Robinson, it strikes me, is through his restraint, his humility, because he had every right, every right to just go nuts. But he begged God, God help me wake up another day to be restrained from the vitriol. And, and there's something that can be learned from, from that tact from Jackie Robinson. And I, and I know you know all this. [01:06:04] Speaker A: Yeah, he was a deeply Christian man, and that is what I admire about him, was that he had every right to, to yell at the, at the fans, at the other players, to fight back. I mean, you know, people throw things at him, all that stuff. And it does remind me, I don't want to, you know, idolize ball players too much, but it is an example of our Lord that, you know, our Lord does it. And I feel like that's what we need to do at times sometimes. And I'm not great at this. I do not claim to be great at this, but when we're, when our rights are taken away from us, when we're attacked, wherever there is a true Christian response of, I don't have to fight back. Yes, there are times we fight back. We fight for the rights of the church, we fight for, you know, the cause of Christ. And I don't want to sound like we just roll over all the time and we're pacifists about this, but there is, I feel like, you know, social media and everything just really instigates, like you have to always respond, you have to always fight back. And I think though what it happens, what you're saying is it, it creates an atmosphere. And that's kind of what I did, you know, about sign, not to criticize Pope Francis anymore was simply that you have to understand there's an. You may be right in what you're saying. You know, technically, so like Jackie Robinson might have been right to, you know, go back at some racist. He was yelling something at him, but ultimately the overall, it just doesn't. The best thing to do is what he did, you know, just kind of say, okay, I'm just going to, you know, take a step back. So I think that. And so, yeah, I just, when I started reading really more about Jackie Robinson, what he did, because of course, if you're a baseball fan, you hear about him very early and you're like, yeah, that's great. And I do think that people can kind of nowadays dismiss that because of the whole kind of the race relations and like the, the over emphasis on everything's racism today when it's not. But this is that at the time, this was, you know, just an amazing thing that he did. And so, yeah, I was like, I told myself, I was like, I'm not going to finish this podcast without bringing up Jackie Robinson. I just feel like I have to even. He wasn't a Catholic, but he, you know, a deeply Christian man. [01:08:10] Speaker B: He. He's an American superhero. He's Abraham Lincoln. Like, he's what he did. He should be on the Mount Rushmore of American heroes. He's number two, three, four. He's there. And, and yeah, he showed. And, and you basically said as much, Eric. So the people that threw out the end bombs consistently, they saw him respond with grace, with humility, with silence. And then they saw him go two for four with two stolen bases. And they said, so he changed their minds by not only his behavior off the field, but on the field. So all of a sudden they were feeling like idiots about themselves, maybe idiots about them, their own racism. So, yeah, it's like what St. Paul. [01:08:48] Speaker A: Says, I think it's like you heap, you know, when you, when you, when you respond with, with Christian charity, like that. You're heaping like something. I'm blanking on the way he put it. But like, the point is, is when somebody attacks you often by responding in Christian charity and not like defending your rights, what you're doing is you're somewhat humiliating the other person in a godly way, so to speak, where they have to then look at themselves, say, wait a minute, what kind of person might like. I remember Cardinal reading Cardinal Newman, John, you know, John Henry Newman. St. John Henry Newman. He would. He was attacked viciously in his day because, you know, he was an Anglican priest, one of the most prominent Anglican priests in the country. He be in England, becomes Catholic, you know, he's just attacked and attacked. And he had a policy. He would never defend himself if somebody attacked him and somehow he felt like it attacked the church. He would then say something, but he never was like, okay, I need to defend my rights. I need to defend my reputation. Well, I will defend the Christ, I will defend the church. And I remember reading that thinking like that is that we. We need to have a little bit more of that. And. And it's very difficult on social media. I don't always do it. But like, you know, just the idea that when, when we're attacked wherever, we can just kind of take that in. I think Jackie, obviously, he's a great example of that. But then, you know, St. John, John Henry Newman did that. I think it's a good lesson for our day today where everybody is look at me and look at how great I am and nobody can say anything against me. Yeah. So. Okay. Well, I think we've talked. I, you know, we could talk into. We can't talk until, you know, we're recording this in the morning and I'm gonna put this out soon. We can't, you know, the games start today at 4. So obviously I was thinking the same thing. [01:10:28] Speaker B: Man, we gotta wrap this thing up. [01:10:30] Speaker A: That's right. We need to wrap this up because we got games to watch here. So. So the Orioles are starting in. In Toronto. Okay. And I think my son and I always pick who we think are going to win everything. We both picked them to win the division. I think they could go deep. I'm a. He wasn't as much a believer as I was. I'm a believer that they've really got the pieces. And the Reds not so much. I mean, I'm always. It's opening day. I believe they're going to win the World Series. But you know, realistically, how many wins? [01:10:58] Speaker B: Just so I can write this down. How many wins will the Reds have this year? [01:11:02] Speaker A: I'm hoping. I'm hoping a lot, but I think they're about a.500 team. So about an 81 win season is kind of the, the, the projections are in the 70s. I do think they're better than they were last year, but I don't think they have. Outfield's awful. I don't think they're going to make, you know, they have some good, very good pitching, but most. They're also very dependent on young people. So. Which makes it where they literally. They could win 90, they could win 70 because whenever you're dependent upon young players, they could break out. I mean, they have what I think is one of the best, best players in the league, Ellie De La Cruz, but he's young and they have young guys around him, so I'm gonna say 81. What do you think for the Orioles? [01:11:39] Speaker B: They'll win 94 games. They're going to get two of their best pitchers, starting pitchers back around July that were out with Tommy John. So they need to, they need to play fairly well until July, but after July, they're going to be one of the best teams in baseball. So, yeah, you know, they're, they made the playoffs the past two years and, but they've been, they've played horrible in the postseason because they're young. I do think this is the year where they'll advance, you know, but who knows? But they're good. I mean, they're a good young team. They have good components. A big key for them not to go on and on is. Is this Jackson Holiday. He was horrible when he debuted. He was, he was the number one overall pick. But, but he had a good spring and he's, he's big and Gunner Henderson's. He's just like De La Cruz on the Reds. He's one of the best players in baseball. So. So, yeah, it's, you know, baseball's fun, you know. Well, it's not fun when you're winning 51 games in a row, which the Orioles had done for about 15 years, but it's fun again. So. So, yeah, I'll be, I'll be watching in a couple hours for now, and, and whether they win or lose, it's going to be fun watching them. [01:12:41] Speaker A: Yep. I got. The kids are all right. We take the afternoon out. We know we homeschool the kids. We get it all ready and we're going to watch the game. We, we're not going down the parade this year, but we're we're going to definitely watch the game, so. Yep. So let. Let's. Yeah, it's exciting. So thanks. I appreciate you coming on Kevin to talk about this. [01:12:57] Speaker B: Thanks, Eric. [01:12:58] Speaker A: Okay, until next time, everybody. God love.