Back to the Beginning: Finding Solutions to Today's Problems in Genesis (Guest: Monica Miller)

[00:00:11] Speaker A: The first three chapters of Genesis set the table, so to speak, for the rest of the Bible, but they also give us answers to the problems that plague us today. If we understand what those chapters are saying, that's what we're going to talk about today on crisis point. Hello, I'm Eric. Sam is your host, editor in chief of Crisis magazine. Before we get started, I just want to encourage people to hit the like button, subscribe to our channel, let other people know about our channel so it can continue to grow. Also, you can go to crisismagazine.com, put in your email address, and we will email you our articles every day, usually two articles a day. We'll get some straight through email box every morning. And also you can follow us on social media. Ricesmag so I have a great guest today, Doctor Monica Miller. She is the director of citizens for a pro life Society. She holds graduate degrees in theology from Loyola University, Marquette University. She's also the author of many books, including, I think it's your most recent in the beginning, crucial lessons for our world from the first three chapters of Genesis, which I have right here. It's an excellent book from catholic answers. Published it. Thanks for coming on, Monica. [00:01:14] Speaker B: Yeah. So good to be with you, Eric. Thank you. [00:01:17] Speaker A: Yeah, we really appreciate all your articles. And, you know, I know we're going to talk about Genesis. We're going to talk about the problems of the world and let's go ahead. I have to ask you, though, we were talking a little bit before we went on here, like, what's the status of the various rescuers who are, have been jailed in recent months, past year? Will Goodman and others? You're very much in tune with that. You're one of them. And so I would like to know kind of what's the current status of the various people who are either in jail or looking at jail time? And how's that going? [00:01:53] Speaker B: Well, over the last three to four years have been a series of rescues. Some of them have been red rose rescues. Others have been what's now termed traditional rescues that actually involve blocking the door or the hallway that leads to the abortion rooms and so on. So back in October 2020, there were ten rescuers who did a rescue at the late, very late term into the, actually into the third trimester abortion center in Washington, DC, the Sant Angelo Washington Surgist center. And they were convicted. I actually attended their trial. I was in DC for ten whole days watching the debacle in Judge Coley, Colleen Coley Cotoli's court court, and actually wrote some articles for Crisis magazine about those particular trials and all there are. One rescuer pled guilty. He did an eight month prison term. A little complicated thing going on there with J. Smith. But nine others are presently in federal prison serving prison sentences ranging all the way from four years, nine months, 21 months. And then there. Then there were other rescuers in Tennessee, Mount Joliet. They did a rescue maybe two, three years ago. These are protestant believers, and they were also convicted under the Face act. And the additional charges that this very weaponized Department of Justice is bringing, completely unprecedented in the history of the pro life movement. Illegalized abortion. And that's this conspiracy to interfere with civil rights that has a ten year, $350,000 fine we're talking about. People are essentially doing a sit in, and then they get slammed with this draconian penalties. And in any case, the rescuers in Tennessee, thankfully, the judge was far more lenient. Only one rescuer, Cal Zastro, got six months. Everybody else got house supervision in three or four months, court probation. Essentially, the one rescuer got a $10,000 fine. I'm really not sure why that happened for him. Then just this week, or actually it was this week. Yeah, this week. Many of the same rescuers that did that rescue in Tennessee did a rescue here in Michigan, August 27 of 2020, at the Northland Family Planning Abortion center. That's where we did our first red Rose rescue, actually, back in 2017. They were also convicted, and now we're waiting for sentences. The sentencing has not yet been scheduled. So some prayers could be, you know, raised up for them. That would be. That would be really good. [00:05:02] Speaker A: You know, I'm confused. Is Joan one of the rescuers on any of these? [00:05:06] Speaker B: Yes, Joan is presently in federal prison. Joan Andrews Bell, very well known pro life activist, married to Chris Bell, who runs these crisis pregnancy centers or pregnancy health centers in New Jersey, the new good council homes. [00:05:25] Speaker A: She. [00:05:25] Speaker B: I think Joan had 24 months. [00:05:29] Speaker A: Was that for the DC rescue? [00:05:31] Speaker B: Yes, yes. The San Angelo abortion Center, right. [00:05:36] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, I mean, Joan's one of my heroes and, yeah, I mean, she's just. She's just a saint. And the fact that she's in jail tells us kind of stay of our country, which is going to just segue me into the topic, which is you wrote this book, you know, in the beginning, and it's about the first three chapters of Genesis and. But it's not a Bible study. It's not a discussion of, like, creation versus evolution, but instead it really is a discussion of kind of the message, as I understand it, the message of those first three chapters, how we apply it to today's world and kind of against the problems of today's world. So could you just kind of start off and tell me what you think is kind of, what are the core issues, the core errors and whatnot that we're facing today in our society today? [00:06:30] Speaker B: Well, right. What I really wanted to do, Eric, maybe a couple things. Generally speaking, I'm not a biblical scholar, okay, even though I do teach Bible classes and so on, but I'm a systematic theologian. And so I really wanted to provide exegesis on the first three chapters of Genesis from a systematic theological perspective and to really provide in some ways the most fundamental apologetics. I want the reader, believers and maybe and even hopefully, frankly, non believers, to pick up the book to see how it is that judeo christian tradition makes a difference in terms of human dignity, the defense of the dignity of the person, more than any other religion, our relationship with God, and then our relationship with God and the world that he has created. So those three things coming together, I want the believer, and even, like I say, non believers, to say, okay, this is what this religion is about. This is not apologetics in that more specific way of is Jesus the divine savior, what is the Eucharist, the resurrection of our Lord, and so on. So that's what I'm really trying to do. And I exploit the fundamental lessons that are embedded in the first three chapters of Genesis to get at these particular issues that we're going to talk about. But one of the things I start out is to show how Genesis, those first three creation narratives, changed the ancient world. It blew apart this ancient pagan dualist pessimism that this world is corrupt, it's evil, the world of matter needs to be abolished. And the only thing that is of importance, the only real thing, is the world outside of time. And so the religion in the ancient world, I characterize it by two words, get out, leave the corrupted material world, leave your body, because all of that is opposed to the spirit, and we want to get back into the deity, dissolve our unique identity, because that's an illusion anyway. And then everything is God, God alone, okay? And then everything is then perfect. And I have a lot of fun, actually, also showing how radical and new and revolutionary are the lessons. And I particular in Genesis chapter one, with a God who has no competitors, a God who creates the world out of complete tranquility. Everything is meaningful and has order in it. And that the human person is the climax, the masterpiece of everything that God created, contrasted with that ancient pagan babylonian. Right, creation story, the Enuma ailishen, which is just wild. I mean, that thing is totally wild, but it's full of violence, full of blood. And the world is created as the refuse of war. And how completely, what kind of world do you want? So, you know, as I start out in the introduction to the book, Eric, ideas matter. Okay? So that's what we want to get at. What do you believe is important in terms of your, your philosophy, your anthropology, your spirituality, your religious ideas? And what. And those ideas matter. So I want to move the reader to appreciate the beauty and the. Well, even, dare I use the word, the progressiveness, if you will, of judeo christian religion. So that's, I'm defending our faith in the most fundamental way. [00:10:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's a good overview. So Genesis one through three, it's always been like, christians have always considered it as kind of the foundation. Like I tell, like when I'm teaching maybe a young, young people a catechism or my kids like that, I always say, like, genesis one through three kind of sets a table. It says, okay, what's the problem? And then the rest of the Bible is about how God solves it. How we got into this mess is the first three chapters. I mean, it started off great, ends up terrible, then all of a sudden, okay, and then it takes a long time, of course, to fix it. But what does, like the first three chapters, you kind of touched on it there. But what does it tell us about God that is different from not just how the ancients treated God, but even how moderns treat God? What is it? What does Genesis one through three specifically tell us about God that we really need to kind of cling to and. [00:11:53] Speaker B: Know that God, first of all, is very proximate to the world that he has created. He's involved. And one of the big themes of this book is that time and history and the world of matter is the arena of God's saving action. And that God is not threatened by the presence of, of another will, that we actually, our God invites us. He wishes us to actually partner with him in the accomplishment of his redemptive plan. So we are not getting in God's way. And again, that's kind of that ancient pagan pessimism that human beings are in the way of the deity. This is so different in judeo christian religion and in particular Christianity. And maybe I could even go so far as to say Catholicism itself. And I do make the statement in this book that of all religions, it's Catholicism that takes this world seriously, that we have a sacramental order. And by the way, I think this is actually one of our biggest problems right now, is kind of a reversion back to that ancient pessimism that the world of matter has no meaning. We have to impose a meaning upon it according to our intellect and our spirit. We see this in that the whole incredibly new transgenderism movement, that my body has no inherent objective ontological value, that I have to change it, alter it, manipulate it to fit the soul, to fit my mind. And all of that is so corrupted in terms of the good creation that God has put here for us and that we are. We are given here, given, you know, we're here to discover that beauty, to honor that beauty, and to develop that beauty, not to exploit it, to damage it, to ruin it, to manipulate it, to alter it to the effect that it has no meaning. I also make the statement in the book. If I had to identify, in terms of ethics, what is our most, you know, what's our deepest problem is a lack of appreciation for natural law. It's out the window. We don't even know what it is anymore. It doesn't matter. So these are the things we need to understand, and we need to recultivate an appreciation for the world that God has created as a sacramental world that it reveals. As St. Paul taught in chapters one and two of his letter to the Romans, this world reveals the invisible mysteries of God. And so we need to get back to that. And I'm hoping that the reader, when they read the book, they're going to say, yes, this author's onto something. So there it is. [00:15:18] Speaker A: Yeah. So, I mean, we see that God, when he creates the world, in Genesis one particularly, there's a six days of creation, the 7th day of rest, and each time he creates something, says, and God saw that it was good. Yeah, right. And so I think we know. I think this is. This is a tricky theological subject, I think, because we know everything around us is, let's be honest, screwed up. That's my theological statement. I had to get a degree to be able to say that. But, but the I. But, so if God created good, what is that relationship? I mean, obviously, we're going to get to Genesis three, which is the fall. But, like, what does it mean that creation is good when we know, for example, we're fallen? Right now, we know all of creation has fallen, but yet it's inherently good. What is that kind of. That tension there? And how should Catholics look at it? [00:16:17] Speaker B: Well, Catholics certainly should look at the world. You know, I spend several pages explaining the natural law theology of St. Thomas Aquinas. And when we talk about the world as good, it is kind of audacious in Judaism and Christianity that something that is not God is also good, that there's something good that is not the deity. And this automatically sets up, then, a relationship between the good God and his good creation. And if I had to identify perhaps the most essential element, theologically and ontologically, if you will, the insight of Judaism that just smashed the ancient world to bits. Yes, there is a distinction. We will honor that. There is a distinction, a difference between what is divine and what is not divine. God and the world of nature. They are not the same thing. Perfect. True. Now, for the ancients, that presented a problem, a conflict, a hostility. But the insight of Judaism says no. There is an inherent harmony and unity between God and the world that he has made, and that changes everything. We need not flee the world of matter. We discover who we are in relation to the world that God has made. And so, as I going back to Thomas Aquinas, Thomas teaches that there's this thing called eternal law. What's in the divine mind? The wisdom of God. The wisdom of God is imprinted on the world that he has made, and that's natural law. What is the end of things? Discover that and you discover the wisdom of God. The intention of the divine mind imprinted on the world that he has made. Even though the distinction has to remain honored, we still have to honor the distinction, but it changes everything, and it's. And it's so beautiful. [00:18:51] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we're talking, so we talk about creation and the distinctions of that. Obviously, the. The highest creation is man, and that's the last thing God creates. And it is good, but there's something unique about it. And I feel like this is where we've gotten into so many of our modern problems. I was just listening to a podcast, I think it was a Joe Rogan podcast with somebody recently, and I could see it here, is the, the lack of distinction between man and animal that, yes, we are animals. We're part of that kingdom in one sense, but we're not. And so many people, like you see materialists, scientists, that were just like glorified apes and not even glorified all the time. And so what do we see from Genesis one to three? And just in general, from what God tells us, what is man and why does it matter, and how does it impact us today? Like, when we're dealing with, like, issues like transgenderism and all these other issues that we talk about today. [00:19:55] Speaker B: Well, the most fundamental ethical principle is found in Genesis, chapter one, that the human being is made in the image and likeness of God, that there's something about us that's on the side of the deity that, in fact, does separate the human being from the animal kingdom, the animal world. And so we have intellect and will, the components of the soul, so that, like God, the human being is an immortal creature who can actually be in the presence eternally before the deity, within the deity and have that eternal relationship. We can, like God, know by our intellect what is a thing for. And then by our will, like God, we can perfect it, we can change it and make it more than what it was. So we have this. This mission, if you will, given by God. And I. And I talk about this in the book because this is one of the areas that's very, very much misunderstood, both positively and kind of negatively. What. What does it mean for man to have dominion like God, over creation? So we are on. We're not just on the side of the world of matter or the side of the world of animals. And that is why it is a radical sacrilege to kill an innocent person, because you're killing something that's on the side of God as if you were killing him. If we don't get back to that ethic, we're lost. And sad to say, we're getting. We have. We have gotten. We've overturned it, you know, with legalized abortion, assisted suicide, euthanasia, and so on. Forced abortion in certain countries. The human being has no ontological status. That separates us out as something sacred to God. And we should tremble. We should absolutely tremble. We should be absolutely horrified that we would violate this special and sacred character of what it means to be human. [00:22:33] Speaker A: There's almost an inversion today in that you have people who will freak out if you kill a dog or kill a cat or something like that. But if you kill an unborn baby, that's like a right. That that's even a good. I mean, that's what's insane. I mean, I. You've been around longer than I have, even. But it's like they're not even pretending anymore. Like, mirror the nineties with Bill Clinton. I mean, those are the good old days where it's just safe, legal, and rare. Now it's like, you know, let's have the bus outside the convention center, which is horrific. But isn't that like an inversion of the true order? So, like, the true aura of man having dominion and then, you know, over all the earth. And, yeah, it just. It seems like understanding that basic hierarchy, that there really is a hierarchy in nature that God created, that we're just missing. [00:23:26] Speaker B: The whole thing has pretty much reverted to the nietzschean perspective, the will to power. And so everything is about power and the imposition of one's will over another. And I essentially. And I talk about abortion in my book. Of course, abortion is about power. It's about power over others, and the other is in my way, and in order to. In order to practice self determination and to fulfill myself, I have to. I have to rid myself of the other. And, I mean, that's pretty much the abortion ethic, very, you know, in one pithy explanation. I don't know what else you can call it. So get rid of the person who's in my way so that I can be free. You even see this? It's incredible. We've got actresses, you know, getting up there after they win their Golden Globe award or whatever. I wouldn't be here if it weren't for the freedom to choose. [00:24:48] Speaker A: Right. [00:24:49] Speaker B: What are you saying? You're saying that you had to kill something in order to succeed? That is what they're saying. They're also saying. These women are saying that their feminine nature, dare I say, God given nature, is hostile to who they are. They have to overcome it by art. And the art is abortion and contraception. So it is an assault on the true self of what it means to be male and what it means to be female. And that gets us back to, of course, the whole natural law ethic. So I can talk about abortion in the book and contraception, homosexuality and transgenderism, then what's the proper meaning of dominion, care for the planet? You know, all of this coming out. Unbelievable. Just from the first three chapters. [00:25:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Because, you know, one of the things that we talk about, how man is created, kind of the height of creation, has dominion over the world. But there's also very important in Genesis one through three, and we see it actually, throughout all three chapters, is that relationship between man and woman, that there is a relationship between the two. There is a. And it's. And there is a distinction between the two. And I think this is where we really get into a lot of our problems today. We have the sexual revolution with the idea of, basically, women trying to. Feminism, trying to turn women into men and men into women, and just who knows what. I mean? It's so confusing anymore. But what does Genesis tell us about that relationship and distinction between man and woman that really can help us today. To kind of see through all the lies we're getting. [00:26:54] Speaker B: Right? And I do. You know, I do my exegesis there, of course, in Genesis chapter two. And we have that incredible statement made regarding the problem, borrowing language from John Paul II, the problem of original solitude. And it is not good. So something. Wow. Something's not good after Genesis one, where everything that God created, all of a sudden, something's not good. Well, we have this anthropological statement. It is not good for the man to be alone. So we know then that in order to be human is to be in communion with others. This is fundamental. This is not a take it or leave it proposition. This is essential to human flourishing, to the very meaning of human nature. And so the solution to the problem of that original isolation of the man. Is to create another in relationship to him, but not just a carbon copy of. Okay, he create. God creates the woman, putting the man into a deep sleep. He built up into the woman the rib that he had taken from the man. And this is so important. It's one of my. One of the. One of the most fun things I did in writing this book. Was to give the true meaning of what it means for God to have created that woman. And so we have the translations from the original Hebrew. So, for example, a lot of times it'll be, I will create the helpmate. Okay? In the Elizabethan English, the help meet or the suitable partner, the helper fit for him. We're all over the map. Okay? In terms of what word? What's the original hebrew word? The azar. Okay. I will create the azar. E z e r. Okay? In semitic languages, the azar is a savior figure. Somebody who rescues somebody who's in serious trouble. Okay? So, for example, if you were in a. In a car wreck on the expressway and the good samaritan comes along. Yeah. You would call that person somebody who came to help me. Okay. But what's the. What's the deeper context of the person who stopped and helped you in the. In the car wreck? Somebody who probably saved your life, called 911, got you out of a burning wreck or whatever? Well, that's what the woman is doing for Adam. She is rescuing him. Saving him from the problem of his original isolation. And so then you have this fantastic eruption of. I mean, basically, the first human speech. The first human speech is about unity and communion between persons. This one, at last, it's a celebration of the other. This one, at last is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh. And then we get we get the ultimate x in a meaning of what it means to be human. For this reason, a man shall leave his father and his mother and cling to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. So the woman, I argue in this book, and it goes to the whole issue of contraception and abortion as well, the woman is the center of human communion. She draws women draw men into the orbit of human communion, where he is now. Male power, if you want to use that word, male initiative. A male creativity is put to the service of his wife and his family. And so the family unit, the center of that unit is. Is the woman who ends the deadly isolation of the man. And I argue in my book, this leads me to my interpretation of Roe versus Wade, because I say Roe versus Wade is not just a legal supreme court decision. Roe versus Wade is a philosophy. It's a philosophy about what it means for human beings to be in relation to each other. And essentially, Roe versus Wade says its philosophy is that we are not in communion. What does it mean to be human? According to Roe v. Wade, radical individualism. And ironically, the most radically isolated an individualistic person is a female is a woman, as Roe v. Wade puts her, into that bubble zone of her own isolation, the right to privacy. The right to privacy is another name for isolation. She isolates herself from her husband, with whom she has a covenant, or the boyfriend, the father of the baby, her parents, and then ultimately from her own unborn child. So Roe v. Wade severs human communion. So it's not just about killing unborn children. It's about, what does it mean for us to have moral responsibility, one to another? And Roe v. Wade says there isn't any. And that's, you know, it's deeper. It's deeper than just the right to life, even. Even as important as that is. [00:33:09] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think this idea of isolation, I think we see it a lot today, because you see so many people, especially young people, you know, they're. They're just staring at their phone, and they're. And they're not really. I mean, that. That's the crazy thing about social media, is how antisocial it is. But just the idea of isolation, I really feel like that's driving a lot of depression, mental illness, suicide, things like that in younger people. And here we go. Genesis again, especially chapter two. This idea, it's not good for man to be alone. Now, I'm an introvert, so I admit I don't always agree with that. [00:33:54] Speaker B: I like to be alone sometimes, too. [00:33:56] Speaker A: Yeah. There are many times I'd be. I'd be happy. I think I'd be happy up on the mountain by myself. But, um. But I do know I need other people just like everybody does. Um, but. But I do think that this is something we need to recognize because, I mean, you have such a high divorce rate. You have. And then there's this false unions, like false communions, where you have. I mean, ultimately, if you talk to people, and I'm sure you have too, who have same sex attraction and maybe have now escaped from the sins that associate with that and live chase lies. The thing I hear over and over again when they talk about them going into relationships with, you know, a man, with another man and things like that is their loneliness. Because typically it's at a very early time in teenage years, they start to realize they're different, so to speak. They have these desires different, and they don't. And they. The biggest fear is I'm not going to be able to get married and have that completeness that God intended for me. And this is why a lot of them turn against God, because they're like, hey, it's God's fault that this happened. And I think, though, this is where I really feel like we have to present what it means to what true communion is, what. What true marriage is and things like that. While, while recognizing the deep desires of people of same sex attraction, that they might go unfulfilled in a lot of ways. Does that make. Does it kind of make sense? [00:35:28] Speaker B: Right? And then there's the. The whole question of how to cultivate friendship, right? Which would, which would do a go, go quite a ways to. What's the word? I want providing a sort of comfort and healing in those types of relationships. But you always have to be. I mean, this is true even for heterosexuals. You know, if I wanted to cultivate, you know, how free am I to cultivate close friendships with other men? And now that I'm a married woman. So we have to. We have to have a certain boundaries, but yet be able to cultivate friendships. And I think maybe some. Some real thinking and some examination needs to go in that direction. [00:36:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I think one of the devil's works in our time is how he has sexualized all relationships in that, you know, two guys who are good friends, it automatically, there's this, like, you know, okay, it's not gay, it's not, well, you know, we're not, you know, or they try. Are they trying to make it like that? Like you saw, I saw not that long ago, people trying to make John St. John Henry Newman's, you know, close friendships he had with other. With St. John I cameras, first name, but a friend, you know, a good friend of his, they tried to sexualize it, and it's just horrific because it's just this idea that two people can't be friends without being sexualized at some time, but it really. Friend is part of that. That, yeah. [00:37:00] Speaker B: Interesting that you should mention that. The first time I went to Italy, which was a number of decades ago, what do you see in Italy? And I don't know what it's like so much now. This would have been back in the eighties, but men walking arm in arm, and women also walking arm in arm, and the men walking arm in arm. They are not a gay couple. This is. This is. This is their custom. So, you know, it's not. It's not an indication that they. They're having a, you know, homosexual. That they have a homosexual relationship. It's kind of. It was stunning. It had something to get used to. Yeah. [00:37:40] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think this is something we really need to cultivate this. I do think, like, this is, like, one of my hobby horses. I know, but, like, the whole Internet and social media phenomenon has made it more difficult to build these real relationships with people, both to. In order to find a spouse, but also just to have solid, healthy friendships, people that you can talk to and. And know and things like that. It's a real. It's a real issue. And we see in Genesis two, though, it's not good to put it, you know, in biblical language. [00:38:14] Speaker B: And here's the real distinction. Social media, Internet interactions. This is the virtual world. Rather than really getting back to the principles of catholic religion, we have an incarnational world, and so that means, you know, friendships that are close and proximate and not done between screens or emails and text. Oh, text messages. Oh, my gosh. Texting is the lowest form of human communication. Okay, I said it. There it is. Okay. Deal with it. [00:38:59] Speaker A: It is pretty bad. You know what I hate? Okay, I know this is a tangent. I don't care. But what I hate about text messaging is the obligations people have put on it that if you text somebody, you're somehow obligated to get back to them within, like, 2 hours or something. And it's like, you know, even if, like, a random person who you barely know texts you, everybody feels like, oh, I have to get back to them soon. But why? [00:39:25] Speaker B: We also could mention the massacre of the english language. [00:39:29] Speaker A: Yeah, that's true. My kid, my young adult kids especially one of them gives me a hard time because I always put a period at end of a sentence in my texts, and they don't ever do that. They just. They don't have punctuation, much punctuation. I always put a period, and they're just like, you don't need to have a period at the end. I'm like, yes, I do. I must. I'm not an editor and writer for no reason, so I have to do. [00:39:55] Speaker B: I like that. Very good. [00:39:57] Speaker A: Yeah. So, okay, so I want to skip forward to, through the bad news, Genesis three. And we've kind of been talking about it, right? But, like, what does Genesis three tell us about kind of the place of sin in this world, its origins? I mean, obviously it's going to tell its solution, because we're all surrounded. And I think this impacts Catholics as much as anybody. Is the place of suffering in the world the place of sin? We all struggle with it because, like, for example, in our current time, a lot of us struggle with it. So prevalent inside the church and among the church hierarchy, for example. And so how does Genesis three kind of tell us, okay, where did this come from, and what can we do about it? [00:40:41] Speaker B: Well, Genesis chapter three, like every major religion that's worth anything, grapples with the issue of where does evil come from? Now, in Buddhism, Siddhartha posed the question somewhat differently. Why is man unhappy? Maybe a more psychological point of view. But Genesis chapter three, consistent with judeo christian religion, has a new, different, radical, revolutionary answer. Because in the ancient world, the source of evil was everything outside of the deity. So you blame the world of matter, and if you get rid of that, then, and you get rid of the self, you resolve the tension, you get back to the original unity of all things, and that's the way it's supposed to be. Genesis chapter three says that we had a perfect world that God created. Everything is good, and the climax of God's creation is marriage. The world is created, I argue, for the one flesh unity of man and woman and to serve it, to cause it to flourish, and then the family is there to advance social justice in this world, and so on. But Genesis chapter three says that the cause of evil is the human will, badly employed, desiring what was not meant for the human will. And it's so incredibly instructive and so radically deep, you shall become like gods. And that is kind of a definition, cryptically, I'll admit, but a kind of definition there in Genesis chapter three, with the words of Satan, you shall become like God's definition, knowing what is good and what is evil. So that is a kind of divine knowledge, and you've crossed that boundary. And really what the first sin is saying is I'm going to forfeit God's world, in which God has designed what is good and what is not good. The contradiction, and we'll call it evil, the absence of the good. And I'm going to design my own moral universe. I'm going to put myself there in God's place. And what if that isn't the ultimate power? Then I don't know what is. You put yourself in the place of the deity, which, by the way, Eve can no longer trust, because Satan says you shall not die. No, no, God knows. Well, the moment you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you shall become like God's, right? So he basically says God is a liar. So, well, if God is a liar, then that's not a deity that I can trust. So Eve is thrown back on her own resources. So you design your own moral universe. I mean, come on, isn't that what Adolf Hitler does? Isn't that what the abortionist St. Angelo is doing? You know, we will decide. So, and I also find it interesting and maybe a little fun that Eve gave the fruit to her husband who was with her, and he ate it. So what does that mean with her? When was he with her? Well, I argue he was with her right then and there. He heard the dialogue. And I think I'm on good theological ground there, Eric, because it's interesting that the text identified. It doesn't say the man was with her. By the way, with is a relational term. Whenever you use it, it's combining one thing with another thing. And so how is the man identified in relationship to the woman? Husband gave it to her husband who was with her. They rise or fall as a couple. And I also argue that, and there has been a lot of ink spilt on why Satan goes after the woman first. And a lot of the. I think it's a wrong theological perspective. He goes after her because she's weaker. Well, that's the aristotelian philosophy. Okay. I think that the Genesis text, coming right off of Genesis chapter two, is actually in some ways saying she's the stronger party. So in other words, if I get her, I get the whole thing, the whole of human communion that began with her creation, that Azar is unraveled, and there, and look at the immediate effects of what they are flung back into human isolation. Adam blames her for what happened. Okay. And then she blames nothing, okay? This power that was bigger than me, they're both very good pagans at that point, they revert back to that pagan pessimism. Women are the problem, okay? According to Aristotle and Plato, what do we do with them? The world would be perfect if everybody was male. Okay? Okay. So this is the thing that has to be resolved. We're back into the world of human isolation. And it's also so fantastic that God, well, we have the assignment of the punishments, okay? And the first assignment are God's, are God's words to. Of Satan to the serpent. I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and hers. He, the offspring of the woman, will strike at your head while you strike at his heel. Okay? Now, in Christianity, that's called the proto Evangelion, right? The first good news, it's the first prophecy that God is going to resolve this fallen world that the misuse of human will has created. And it's, I think it's so important that word enmity, I will put enmity between you and the woman. In other words, Eve is not forever marked by her having sided with him. This enmity is good, good news that there will be this radical contempt and hostility between the force of evil identified with the serpent and the woman. And then her offspring will come. And by the way, that projects the human race into the future. So the virtue of hope comes with Judeo Christianity. And so, look, don't stay embedded in this bad day. This is a bad day. Genesis, chapter three. That's a bad, bad day. Look forward. So that also tells us that history and time is the medium of God's redemption. And so it's not that we have to escape time to be saved. We have to use it as God's mechanism for the salvation of the world. And so the offspring of the woman, of course, will be the savior, who will, in fact, crush the head of the serpent. But this is not just a slam dunk thing. The savior will be wounded. This is battle. This is combat. This is serious blood sport, if you will, between Jesus and the serpent. So we have then, of course, the original Eve is the prototype for Mary. Mary will bring us the savior of the world. And so redemption is beautifully announced on the very day in which everything went wrong. And that is the kind of God we have. [00:50:19] Speaker A: And it really is. So that idea of struggle and the conflict between them is an important point about the idea of suffering and sin, that, yes, there is suffering, and that suffering is caused by our enmity with God. Basically caused by our, the break with him. But he doesn't just leave us alone, you know, he gives us, you know, a savior who suffers with us and as well as our lady, who suffers in the seven sorrows of Mary and her enmity between her and Satan as the woman par excellence, of course. And I think that's an important thing to remember when we see all this stuff going on, is that our Lord entered into the suffering because like you said, any religion worth its salt is going to address the problem of evil, the problem of suffering. [00:51:11] Speaker B: But, and unlike every other religion, really, it's, it's. And I, and I could even say, go so far as to say Catholicism. We have crucifixes in our churches. Okay? The. Ironically, perhaps God is saving us through suffering as our Lord suffered on the cross. And so the human suffering is never a waste. It's redemptive and can be put to the use of good. So it's not just something to escape or it's not just something to curse. It's not just something to resolve by doing evil things, to resolve it ironically. So this is in some ways maybe the ultimate lesson of redemption, right? Yeah. [00:52:08] Speaker A: And that we don't, you know, we live in a time that's, that's difficult. Let's just say that's my understatement for the day. Difficult has issues. But it is a, it is the means by which we can be saved, in which we can grow in holiness. And I think for, I mean, just to take it all the way back to the beginning, the example of those brave men and women who are in jail right now for the rescues they're undergoing. This one thing I know you hear it all the time. You've heard. You've heard it for decades. And I heard, too. Was that the idea, it's a waste of time to be in jail? You could be doing so much. [00:52:43] Speaker B: Even good pro lifers have told me that. [00:52:46] Speaker A: Absolutely. That's where you usually hear it from. I mean, and I think it's sincere. I. It's good, it's well intentioned, I get that. But usually. But the idea that somehow it's just a waste of time. But of course it's not because that time in jail is more time that you can offer up the sufferings, but also you can be with people who need Jesus and evangelize them. And there's so much. And we all know, I mean, you know, probably many stories of just the good that comes out of it when good people, good pro lifers are put in jail. I mean, it's obviously a wrong. It's not like we don't fight against the wrong of them being jailed, but we know God can work through that as well, so. [00:53:26] Speaker B: Well, yeah, I can mention my book abandoned, the untold story of the abortion wars. Ten books, St. Benedict Press. [00:53:35] Speaker A: But I love that book, by the way. I mean, I think my wife bought that for about 400 people. I feel like she just kept on getting more copies and handing them out to people. [00:53:48] Speaker B: You're making the publisher very happy. [00:53:50] Speaker A: Yes. I mean, it was hilarious how often we bought that book and gave it to people. [00:53:54] Speaker B: So thank you so much for that. That's edifying. Thank you so much for that. [00:53:58] Speaker A: It just, you know, we were involved in it somewhat back in the day especially. And so it was just to see, you know, somebody like you telling the story. But, you know, let's end on this, because I has nothing to do with counter discussion, but it does. You mentioned before we went on air that you went down to democratic national convention on Monday. And so. Yes, until you were outside near the abortion truck, or whatever it's called. I mean, I don't know. Can you just kind of there, like, what was going on there? I mean. I mean, it's just horrible. And so many people are just scandalized by what was going on. [00:54:33] Speaker B: The planned parenthood. Well, I have to say, frankly, not a whole lot. We were there for about an hour. We had our abortion victim images. We had literature with abortion pill reversal information, local pregnancy help center information that we were giving out. We only saw one person go into the van, and honestly, we couldn't even tell if it was a man or a woman. Okay. But apparently she had. He. She had been there for quite a while. So that person probably had some kind of medical procedure, whatever it was. The staff tried to ignore us as best they could. They had security guards who tried to ignore us. But I could tell that one african american security guard, you know, he looked at our pictures, so at least we had a presence there. But, you know, they were parked at some weird place. It was surrounded by a black fence. I mean, a nice fence, you know, not just the chain link thing. It was a nice fence. But there was a taco truck right next to him. It was. It was so absurd. Yeah. Yes, it was absolutely absurd. [00:55:50] Speaker A: So, I mean, that's America right there. Yeah. I mean, isn't that America right there? You have a taco truck and an abortion truck right next to each other. [00:56:00] Speaker B: Listen, don't get me started there. Years ago, there was. Well, there still is. An abortion clinic in West Bloomfield, Michigan, the women's center. And it a Starbucks. I am not exaggerating. A Starbucks shared the same building. Not just that. These were two buildings next to each other. The same building. The Starbucks in the front, the abortion mill in the back. We actually did a red rose rescue there back in 2017. [00:56:27] Speaker A: You had very nice coffee beforehand. This is everything. [00:56:30] Speaker B: This is everything. You go get your latte and your cappuccino while they're doing second trimester abortions, you know, in the very same building. Oh, it's just insanity. [00:56:41] Speaker A: It is insanity. Well, the solutions are in genesis. So I just want to recommend people in the beginning crucial lessons for our world from the first three chapters. Genesis from catholic answers by Monica Miller. It's very good. Like I said, it's not a strict Bible study. It's not talking about the, you know, like, creation versus evolution, but it's talking about the real issues that those chapters are addressing and then applying it to today's world. So I highly recommend it for people. And I'll put. I'll make sure I put a link to catholic answers website where you can buy it, so. Well, thank you, Monica. I really do appreciate. Yes, I appreciate you being on the program. Till next time, everybody. God love you. [00:57:27] Speaker B: Thank you. God blessed.